"Perry Castings" Topic

I posted this on another message board and was told that the Perry's read TMP. So here goes.

Let me start this off by allowing that I own and operate Kings Mountain Miniatures, which most of you will be familiar with. I want to make it perfectly clear where I am coming from. Am I a competitor to Perry? Hardly. Perry sells more figures in a hour than I have sold since KMM started last year. So, this is not some sour grapes issue. I wish to be perfectly clear about this right up front.

I will also admit that in my massive AWI collection, Perry is, by far, the number one choice in figures. More than 3,000 figures I would estimate. I am no Perry hater.

So, then what's the problem.

Castings. Quite simply, Perry castings are horrific. The twins offered a "post free" deal for any order over 200.00 USD and I jumped right in with both feet. I ordered 12 of each of all of their new one piece AWI Cavalry castings. 9 troopers and 3 Command figures per unit. That's a total of 72 mounted figures. I also filled in the new Northern sets, all the various civilians, drag rope men and so on. I believe my total was over 300 dollars.

I am partial to AWI Cavalry, and probably have more 28 mm figures than there were actual mounted troops involved in the AWI. What can I say? But, I am getting off track here.

So, my order arrived and I hurriedly opened those silly little boxes that the figures come in. Disappointment is too mild a word to use.
The mounted castings are just plain awful. The horses are all mangled from being pulled from the molds before they cooled. The legs are twisted and the bases are nowhere near flat. There is flash between the horses legs and there are "spiders" everywhere. "Spiders" are those long slim threads of metal that form where air vents were cut into the mold, so that the metal will flow freely. There were at least 6 places on each horse that had these. The separate arms were no better, being attached at the shoulder, so that you have to file down the excess metal on every arm. There are 6 arms per pack. You do the math.

It took me 6 hours to get 30 castings into useable shape. That's just cutting off the spiders, filing the excess down, attempting to straighten out the front legs and trying to get the horse to stand up without falling over. Flattening out the base took up most of the time. That and trying to get the sabers to look presentable. Every sword or saber has a thick line of excess metal running down the length of the weapon that must be cut off or filed away.The tips of the swords also have a clump of metal right at the point that must be shaped.
The sabers are very thin and are all bent out of shape. I'm not talking about one or two miscasts. Every single mini had the same problem.
Additionally, one horse pose has the back legs "welded" together when they should be separate. I just left these as is, since I have no wish to attempt to resculpt horse legs.

What the hell is going on here? Doesn't this company have any kind of quality control at all? Or have the brothers become so secure that they feel that they can foist any crap on the gaming public and it will be accepted without complaint?

I'll use Fife and Drum figures here as an example. The owner and I use the same mold maker and casting service. Not one of F&D's figures have multiple spiders attached. All of his horses have flat bases and the legs are not twisted into some bizarre position. All of his castings are clean and ready to paint within 5 minutes of opening the package. The difference between a F&D casting and a Perry casting has to be seen to be beleived.

Why is this? Each casting cost me 5 dollars. That's not cheap and I expect better for my money.

I seriously contemplated sending the whole order back and if it didn't cost a small fortune in postage, I would have. There is no excuse for this other than complete disregard for the integrity of their product. I've learned a bit about the casting process since I opened KMM and I can say that a better casting service is needed here. Quite simpley, the present company stinks.

The twins sculpt amazing figures. For the life of me, I don't understand why they wouldn't want the best possible examples of their art made available.
I know that some of you have a relationship with the Perry's. Tell them, for me, to spot check a couple of boxes of their new AWI cavalry
and see if I'm not telling it like it is. I don't really care that they are considered "gods" by loads of wargamers. If I had received these castings, from the casting service that I use, I would have returned them as unacceptable.

It cannot be just me that has noticed this. Perhaps the Perry's are unaware of the problem. All they need to do is open a package and look. Maybe someone here can forward this to them. Once quality begins to slip it's not long before customers begin to leave and find something better.

As I wrote previously, I am a huge Perry fan. They need to do better. Not that they care, but I will not be purchasing any more of their products until something is done about this. It is all so unnecessary. A bit of attention is all that is needed.

Back to cleaning ing lousy castings.

I treid to crosspost this to several other relavant boards but got Time Locked Out. Mr. Editor please post this on the Industry board and anywhere else you deem relavant.

I've been complaining of their castings for a long time now, and exactly for the same reasons than you do. I do not buy their metals anymore -I've tried, but they are such a pain to clean and prepare for painting -and so many details are lost in the casting process- that I can't force myself to waste my time with them.

Their plastics, on the other hand, are superb. Luckily for me, my current interests are well served by their plastics.

Best

I can smell the burning torches and see the glint of pitchforks already ;-)

Have you contacted them regarding this -?

Had similar issues with another company – wonderful sculpting, woeful casting.

That sinking feeling when you realise how much work it's going to take to get them looking presentable…

Feel for you, mi amigo.

Have you contacted them regarding this -?

Yes, I sent them a copy of this post.

This isn't the first time this has been raised. I myself have some Perry medievals which are very bad. I love Perry plastics, but would think twice before buying any more metal.
Its a shame, as they are fantastic figures which are often turned into blobs of slag by the casters.

Their castings have been horrible; the sculpts are great. You have every right to feel short-changed.

I hope that they will address this issue to give the public, and their sculpting time and skill the due consideration deserved.

Knowing their reputation in the gaming community, I suspect they will.

I can sympathise in that I prefer their plastics over the metals.

That said, a private email to them before this may have opened up a dialogue; the two emails I've sent them have both had replies within 24 hours, which isn't bad at all.

Goon, A private email would not help other interested parties know what the condition of their product is. Take it as a warning. The examples on their webpage are spectacular.
The product that arrives at your home is just rubbish.

I'm hoping that they read this (I am told by someone in the know, that they read TMP) and see all the complaints listed and do something about it.

You are correct. Some of the metal figs I have seen are nothing but crap.

That being said, the plastics are fantastic. Love the Napoleonic French and British hussars boxed sets for example.

Even more frustrating is to THINK you have all the spiders cleaned off and to find more after you prime them.
This has been going on for years, since I had that very problem with several boxes of AWI Highlanders that I bought quite a few years ago.

I will be quite blunt here. I ONLY buy Perry figures if they are the only ones who make a certain troop type. No one else makes Lee's Legion dismounted or Volunteers of Ireland so I got them from Perry, and bit the bullet cleaning them. Fantastic figures, once you get past the initial frustration and annoyance.

If they think that "Hey, people will buy them because they are Perrys!", all I can say is that I would have bought a lot more had they been better cast.

I have never had a problem with any metals purchased from perry miniatures.

I have heard similar complaints in the past, and wonder if the company that manufactures them has had some problems?

(I am also in the business, and I accept the odd bit of flash on figures that I send out (my prices are somewhat cheaper than perrys)) I have used the same casting firm that PERRYS use, but changed when price / quality factors convinced me to change casters.

Don't take this as fact, but rather I've heard. Pure rumour here folks. So here goes the Perry's are well aware of the casting issues, but to have better quality casts would increase the price of the figures and they prefer to keep the figures more affordable rather then improve the casting and the following increase in cost.

I hate the clean up, but once done I really enjoy the figures especially AWI. Undecided if I want better casting, but higher cost or stay with the present cost and put up with the annoying cleaning. Ask me each day and I'll give you a different answer. Ask me when I'm actually cleaning the figures and I'm pretty sure what answer you will get.:-)

Christopher

I think the new AWI American cavalry packs are the worst I have ever seen. I ordered them when they first came out. Not only did they have all,the spurs everywhere there were a lot of horses that had flashing between the legs. Then, just to top it all off, I had horses that looked like someone crushed them down to fit in the tiny box.

I complained to the folks in the USA who are the Perry reps, and with whom I purchased them from. They were not too concerned. If I did not like what I got, then I could send it all back to them and they would reorder the figures. That was not going to happen. No telling what the next figures would look like. And I have to wait for the vendor to restock? Really bad customer support which I had never had from them before.

I hope the Perry boys get their QA sorted out because putting out figures that most casters toss back into the melting pot is going to be bad for business. I still have the boxes sitting on my self and they will just collect dust. I am just that put off by the quality that the Perry's released and by the non customer service from the USA distributor.

Matthew

I had a similar issue some time back, however, it was only one pack. I contacted the Perrys, and they replaced it, no questions asked. Don' t think they'd do that for an order your size, though.

Bill: you are a brave man to step forward and say what needs to be said about the quality of the casting of Perry metal figures. The castings do not measure up to the high standard of the sculpts and it is a shame that the Perrys have not addressed this problem.

Given that the figures are hand packed in their little black boxes, you would think that the person(s) doing the packaging could take a couple of seconds to at least remove the larger pieces of metal sprue still attached to the figures. As an example, I bought a wagon and horse team from Perry and a similar team from another company. I counted 17 bits of excess sprue or spiders attached to the Perry figures and 1 piece attached to the other company's product. The Perry figures had two "2-inch" long metal sprues attached to them that could have easily been pulled off by hand before packing. Simple quality control would address this problem to some degree.

Why wouldn't a company want to deliver nothing but the best quality product to its customers?

I'd like to see visual evidence of this – I'm not necessarily doubting anyone, as I've heard rumours myself. I'm planning to get a pile of AWI anyway, and I'm used to cleaning up metal – in fact, another large manufacturer has had casting issues with figs I've purchased; even the most recent mounted figs I've bought by them have many of the same issue. And they were quite a recent release too.

Same with many others, lots of flash, spiders etc, and often really heavy mold lines and whatnot.

As I said, I'm not challenging the OP, it's just a case of wanting to find the general standard for a personal comparison.

They are most definitely aware of the casting issue, but choose not to correct it. The plastic figures are beautifully made and do not share the flaws of the metal. Maybe if metal sales started dropping, they would take notice.

Yes, the plastic figures are quite good: crisp and clean and very nicely detailed. I realize that one gets better detail with plastic injection moulding compared to spin casting.

To be completely fair here, the Perry's replied to my email right away and expressed their concern. They state that they will look into the problem and address it.

They did wonder why I didn't email them first.

What good would that have done? By publishing my complaint, many others joined in to agree. Now they know that it's not just one pain in the neck, but that they have a widespread problem. I also wanted to warn any other future buyers to beware when buying their product.

I have taken photo's of the castings, but I did promise the Perry's that I would send the pix to them first. That is only fair. If they correct the situation, then that will be the end of it. I have to give them a chance to make good.

I will keep you informed.

Bill,
I agree that Perry's metal castings have the problems that you mentioned. I also feel that you were quite polite with your opening email regarding this issue. My gut reaction was that you only wanted to bring it out in the open and see just how many folks feel the same/not the same as you do regarding Perry Miniatures! After all, isn't there "strength in numbers"?
Tom Semian
Avalon, Pa. 15202

I'll chime in as someone who has had issues with casting quality problems. I have quite a few Sudan figures where the horses were problematic, tons of busted bayonets etc. and don't even get me started on the samurai laces- especially on the feet.

The casting vents/spiders aren't what I consider a problem, they are easy enough to trim off. The caster obviously feels they're necessary for some reason. I'm not sure why almost every other caster doesn't need to use as many and still manages to fill the cavities though.

Well it put me on notice and I really appreciate it as I love the Perry sculpts, am not much of a modeler and am getting more into 28mm figures. I would never have guessed this was an issue from the finished figures I have bought from others and if this spurs reform well that is good for everybody.

Nevinsrip: thank you for posting this topic. I mentioned this problem once on another forum and got my head ripped off by the fan boys, so I've been reluctant to ever speak of it again. I hope that the Perrys will look at the casting of their wider range in their response to you and not just focus on your particular order.

I agree with OP. I ordered some of their metal WOTR foot knights and the quality of the castings is terrible. I had to cut off some of the scabbards on the figures and replace them with the plastic ones from their boxed sets.

Like John the OFM, I too will not buy from their metal ranges as long as there are alternatives.

It's perplexing as they obviously put in a lot of effort with the sculpts and seem to be intimately involved in the tooling for the plastic molds, so I don't understand why they don't do quality control on what they ship out to their customers. It really is as simple as looking at what comes out of the molds, so if you ship me a figure that is poorly cast, my natural conclusion is that you don't care about what leaves your door.

I often miss the spiders and don't find them all until I'm focused in, painting. Carving away, and then spot priming again are a pain.

This year my club is starting 28mm Napoleonics and eight of us have agreed to buy Perry`s but I will be talking to the club tonight and will be a bit more tentative about our purchases in metal.

I don't collect plastic figures………mmmmm its a lot of money to build a French army and I am not prepared to spend it on inferior castings.

I wil be watching how this goes and the responses, I hope its righted.

Yours Worried

Thanks for letting us all know about this. I've never bought any Perry metal packs, and now I can't see that ever happening. I will look to other fine ranges such as Front Rank for my needs.

A couple of years ago I got a few boxes of British infatry for the Sudan for Christmas. Every gun barrel was bent so far out of shape it looked like something out of a Bugs Bunny/Elmer Fudd cartoon. I had a couple boxes of camels that had legs and bases that were pretty badly bent.

Alcal & Cooperman, Let's not jump the gun here. Give the Perrys a chance to respond and let us know what they plan to do. It is unfair not to allow them to explain their side of the story and what their plan moving forward is.

It is the right thing to do.

You may want to ask for samples or buy a few packs to see if you wish to purchase more before just dismissing them outright.

I purchased a couple of months ago some metal figures from Perry to complement the army I had bought from Foundry a year and a half ago. I have to say that among the Dragropmen,civilians,cavalry,highlanders in kilts etc,I found them to be of top quality, none of the above mentioned complaints.Maybe I was the lucky one, but after my experience with Perry I will definately be buying from them again. I understand you all placing your complaints on this blog and agree that you do so. However I feel it neccessary to say that some of us have had excellent results
with our puchases. (By the way, I am not a member of the Perry family ;-)….)

I was quite interested in their metal WW2 Afrika Korps figures, but having seen the castings up close at a recent show, I decided not to buy any due to the lack of definition in a lot of the detail.

I just don't find it any fun to have to try and work out what ends and what starts where at the painting stage.

Hi

Im not jumping any gun,as i said `I wil be watching how this goes and the responses, I hope its righted`.

Im not dimissing them but I may hold off for now,i have no pressure to collect the metal yet but you now how it burns not to start a new mountain :-)

AL

The Perrys have been aware of the problem for years, and obviously have chosen to do nothing to correct it. Perhaps now that they've left GW, they will pay a bit more attention.

Alcal

Don't be shy of using their plastics. They are marvelous. Now I am painting WoTR archers and they are top notch.

How do you 'know' they are aware of these issues?

I've been purchasing direct (metal and plastic) for the past five years. I've not seen any of the issues described by the OP but I'm not dismissing his statements. It seems, albeit based on this small thread, that there are problems.

I don't know what their physical set up is: is the casting done 'on site'; do they pack the figures, etc. – ?

I find it difficult to believe that a business would knowingly allow inferior products to be shipped.

Anything regarding 'because it's the Perry's' is simply conjecture unless someone has spoken to them and has been told something along these lines.

I know because I emailed them about the issue years ago after buying a large number of Sudan figures from them. Supposedly they were looking into a new casting service. Obviously they never did or else the new one is as bad as the old.

Understood.

I never had any of these issues when buying Perry figures cast by Foundry or Games Workshop.

And as the OP said, the caster he uses and Fife and Drum uses are totally free of issues. My pre prime prep consists of an inspection followed by a very rare filing of a seam line.

I've not seen any of the issues described by the OP but I'm not dismissing his statements. It seems, albeit based on this small thread, that there are problems.

Likewise.

I have been slowly building armies for Sudan and Italian Condottieri (WoTR/European Armies), plus figures from ACW and Carlist Wars for other projects over the last couple of years. I can honestly say that I haven't experienced one single casting issue at all. No mould lines, flash, miscasts. Spiders, yes sure but nothing that has stood out over and above other manufacturers and the metals remain ridiculously easy to clean up compared to the effort you need to put into the plastics.

As I've built up my forces over time, they obviously come from different casting runs and all have been uniformly ok. That's been my experience. If I've been lucky then long may it continue.

Cheers
Mark

I like the plastics because after a heavy black wash and 24hrs you're ready to painted the gluing is…..creative. That' said, the metals I've bought have needed only the usual clean up. On the occasion that I did gave a gripe it was resolved by the Perrys at GZG lightspeed

Wow, this is all new to me. I have been purchasing Perry's metals for years and never have had any of these problems. The last purchase was six months ago. I purchased metal AWI American light infantry, both plastic and metal. They all were flawless.

Is this something industry wide? I have been told by the U.S. company I buy 15mm Old Glory from, that OG is casting figures as they are ordered to keep unsold stock down.

But just today I was going through some OG 15mm Cav.figs that I just recently purchased and there was more flash and spur leftovers than I had ever seen, mostly the horses.

Took me several hours to get them clean up. Never had this problem before. I mean, I clean all the figs anyway, but it was a lot more than I expected.

If this is true about the Perry's then it will be quite a blow. They have figures you just can't get anywhere else. But as I have said, I have not had any problems with Perry's figs and I have quite a few.

Their plastic range is not as complete as the metal ranges. Are they trying to wean everyone off the metals by casting them badly so customers will buy more plastic?

Wierd. I've been buying their minis for 10+ years. Never had any serious issues. In fact, I find the quality of material used to be better than other cast figures I buy. Less soft. Crisp details.

I know, this is really strange.

I have been reading this lynching of the Perry's,and maybe I am in the Minority,but I have always had great service ,and wonderful castings,I think once I had a horse I had to straighten out ,but no worse than I have had w/other companies. I like them and will continue to purchase as I will every other manufactor .

I'm a Perry fan, but in recent years I noticed that some castings lack the crispness you find in their plastics range. Could be a shift in style or a casting problem, but so far it's hardly been a problem.

Never been a "spider" fan, no matter how much you look there is always one hidden out of sight that doesn't appear until after priming and even some basic paint work.

I also have problems with Perry castings. I spend hours cleaning them and prepping them for priming. I also fail to see the wisdom of packing figures with this much flash into a box filled with cotton. It takes 30 minutes to pull off all the cotton. They should try using a better casting company. Bottom line, I love the figures and hate the castings.

B