"US squadrons 'may use UK carrier' for operations" Topic

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30209960

What do you call an aircraft carrier with no planes?

British!

In the meantime, it may act as a taxi service for the US Marines.

I don't know if its important but remember, we drive on the left.

Well, since the UK is supposed to be getting the planes from the US anyway perhaps its only fair.
If they keep the meter running when the US Marines are on board perhaps that can ofset the cost of the ships somewhat!

Further discussion here:
TMP link

Ah! So that's why she was built.

Ah! So that's why she was built.

And her sister ship?

Spoke to a few people who know where this story came from and it is, fortunately, complete bobbins (they used rather more colourful language).

Still, gets the BBC hacks and the other hapless UK journos all excited and gives them a chance to whine a lot I suppose :)

Spoke to a few people who know where this story came from and it is, fortunately, complete bobbins

Damn. I wanted to rename it the Yorktown.

I don't know if its important but remember, we drive on the left.

Heh. :)

Well, there is precedence….

During WWII, HMS Victorious was loaned to the USN (from Jan '43 to Sept '43). She operated under the name (for radio signs, etc) as USS Robin. And was fully refitted to handle US aircraft. The reason for the loan was that the USN was desperately short of carriers; Enterprise was in yards leaving Saratoga as the sole functional carrier in the Pacific. Once the Essex and Interdependence class ships began to appear in theater, the Victorious could then return to RN control.

Now, the current story is complete BS (sounds like the BBC got sold a bill of goods on this one…).

I might be missing something. Why doesn't the UK just cancel the F-35 order that is ridiculously too expensive and just build new Harriers? They are not stealthy, but with modern electronics and upgraded engines they are still better than anything short of the newest US planes. They could still kick the crap out of 99% of the world's air forces and would bring jobs and pride back to the UK. I would imagine they would be a fraction of the price of the F-35. Hell, even the US realizes their ability, hence the Marine Corps still uses them.

Another option would to order a few F-35s for where the stealth roll is needed and have the harriers for everything else.

just build new Harriers

Cause restarting Harrier production for a small order would result in jets more expensive than an F-35 and perhaps even approaching B-2 Spirit levels. You'd have to find new contrators to build the thing and reset up entire supply lines.

Oh and the cost of redesigning the engines and adding new electronics.

Last Harrier was built in 1997 and last rebuild was in 2003.

Also the Harrier II was built was lots of US components too.

even the US realizes their ability, hence the Marine Corps still uses them

Marines don't have an option when it comes to LHD/LHAs. And their plan is to retire the Harrier by 2025.

They would have retired both the AV-8 and F/A-18 earlier but got screwed over by delays with F-35B.

Delays with F-35 is also reason why other than F-22 and some unusable F-35s, USAF has not received any new fighters for about decade. Last F-16 was delivered in 2005 and last F-15E in 2003/04 and in both instances it was small production runs as attrition replacements.

I always wondered why they didn't navalize the Typhoon or just buy Rafales (or the licence to make them?)

Unfortunately, the aircraft carriers can't operate carrier-variant aeroplanes, only STOVL types.

There was the rumour at one point that Britain could share their carriers with France. Whether this was ever really contemplated or just an attempt to stun 120 million people in one go, I don't know.

The carriers can be refitted for cats and traps if need be.

This may be included during the first refit.

It was too expensive to modify the ships whilst in build

Let's face it: our only realistic hope of getting combat-capable aircraft on that floating white elephant died when those buried Burmese Spitfires turned out to be a false alarm.

Well … the US & Brits are long time allies … I just don't know how much the US pilots will like what is served in the Mess ? Bangers & Mash, Toad in the Hole, etc. ?!

They might not like the food but at least the Royal Navy ships are NOT dry!

Indeed !

Yes indeedie, and perhaps a bit o lash and sodomy into the mix (as said by Anthony Montague-Browne) we could have a naval traditions that could make us friends throughout the world :)
Cheers and chuckle to our naval brethren here (PS no malicious intent intended just jesting- we know your contribution and salute it).
Finally will the F35 fiasco be salvageable and shouldn't someone be held liable and accountable as it does hurt security.

The carriers can be refitted for cats and traps if need be.

This may be included during the first refit.

It was too expensive to modify the ships whilst in build

As part of the general fiasco that surrounds the carriers, they had already started converting to CATOBAR. And then then they converted them back. And it cost £100.00 GBP million.

link

Politicians at their best.

"Damn. I wanted to rename it the Yorktown."

Too funny!!

Are the SHAR F/A2s still available, or were they made into beercans?

I was under the impression they were mothballed, but might be made available if needed. I seem to recall at least some of them getting decent upgrades before being rolled out to pasture.

Nah.. The Lexington was much sexier. But knowing the Navy she'll probably be the Enterprise…

Are the SHAR F/A2s still available, or were they made into beercans?

Turned into beer cans between 2004 and 2006 from memory.

They sold 72 Harrier IIs (GR.7 and GR.9) to USMC.

These are not Sea Harriers and are in fact very different to a Sea Harrier.

Looks like a bunch of them are still lying around, but not in any state for restoring to service – India was looking at buying some, but decided refurbs would cost too much. 12 airframes seem to have ended up at Culdrose, some stored, some used for training deck handlers, while the rest are mainly in museums or private collections.

link

They sold 72 Harrier IIs (GR.7 and GR.9) to USMC.

Yeah, I realised I was getting mixed up and deleted. See my follow up post.

No probs!

Nowhere near enough airframes for anything resembling operational capabilities.

I always think that the RN should've gone for a conventional carrier and simply "leased" French Rafales or USN F/A-18E/Fs until F-35C was mature enough.

Definitely agreed on the carrier, although my pride baulks at buying French – I'd probably go for the navalised Gripen Saab have been playing around with to pitch at Brazil and India.

A navalised Gripen would be too costly with virtually no economies of scale.

Also India had already opted for indigenous LCA Tejas for carrier purposes. They have since brought 46 MiG-29Ks. Tejas and Gripen overlap in terms of size.

Brazil might need 24 if they're lucky.

I think a lease would've been good as it would've had an opt out clause once F-35C is available.