"My fading GMB flags" Topic

I must admit that I am quite desperate. My GMB flags are progressively fading, loosing their colors as time goes by. Curiously, not all of them do, in spite of the fact that all have been treated similarly: glued, gloss varnished and finally matt varnished (Humbrol gloss and matt cotte), and all are kept in the same show case, under the same environmental conditions. So I must conclude that it depends on the manufacturing batch.
Since a picture is worth one thousand words let me show you:

s1355.photobucket.com/user/PieroCrespo/media/IMG_1175_zpsccf5aa2a.jpg.html

Notice the colors on the flag in the middle (not fading, yet) and those on the sides.

This is even more evident with the french flags: compare with the ones yet unused.

s1355.photobucket.com/user/PieroCrespo/media/IMG_1177_zps6f2f0f97.jpg.html

This used to be a green 75th regimental flag!!

s1355.photobucket.com/user/PieroCrespo/media/IMG_1178_zps728507df.jpg.html

So I guess that you can understand my despair. Is this happening to someone else?. If so, how do you prevent it?, other than changing manufacturer which I am quite reluctant to because GMB flags are, by far, the best in the market.

Would a uv resistant varnish be any help? I think the ones sold for artists use claim to have this property. Ultimately, most pigments are going to fade if exposed to light. I keep most of my models in closed drawers and all of my flags are hand-painted, although nowhere near as nice as the GMB ones they show no signs of fading, even though some of them are over 40 years old.

My show case is not exposed to direct sunlight. In any case, I did considered light as a suspect, so I placed some flags in the darker places and they still fade…I am afraid.

What he said basically – if you keep them on display (and especially if they catch direct sunlight) any printed flags will fade – it's just a matter of time. Using a UV resistant varnish on them should considerably slow the process, but printed matter + sunlight (or other light too; direct sunlight has the fastest effect though) + time is a combination that's always going to head the same way….

Well, how do you explain then that some fade and some don't?. And how come some relatively new flags have faded, while some older ones retain their colors?

Different colourfastness properties of different ink suppliers I'd imagine. It could also be different paper batches. Fade is inevitable, the rate of it isn't. As has been said though, using a UV resistant varnish should at least slow the process, but if you have them on display rather than boxed, you're most likely going to be able to slow it, not stop it.

Logical for the French. The whole of France is quickly fading too.

otherwise, yes sun light. might help with varnish but not sure. this is one of the reasons not to store then in glass displays.

All

Although this is to be expected with the passage of time, and I personally take no issue with it, I believe that the Gentleman who owns GMB will replace the flags free of charge, as stated elsewhere on these forums.

I seem to recall a previous feed whereby he explained that he had a batch of paper which fell below his normal standard, but obviously this wasn't apparent at the time.

F

Acid in the paper can adversely affect coloured inks and so can some types of coating (which is often used with ink-jet paper). The initial effect is to give a brighter and better image but at the cost of long-term deterioration.

Laser printed flags tend to suffer less but are by no means immune to similar problems and it can be quite difficult sourcing paper of appropriate type.

I am baffled. This makes no sense. Note -- figures should never be kept in direct sunlight -- but what you are showing looks like years of exposure to sun. And I get the impression that is not the case here. It must be something "chemical" Agree that you should contact GMB, he will certainly have some ideas.

Hi sorry i don't have any suggestion on how to stop the fade, the finials and bow decoration on your austrian flags are very nice. where can i get them from?

Kellerman, do a search for GMB on the Napoleonic boards. This has come up a couple times and the problem was using inferior inks.

Esquire
Absolutely, while some have been "on the field" for many years others, for example the two austrian infantry regiments shown, have less than two years. No relationship with time whatsoever.

Paxx88
I make them. The spearhead comes from FrontRank lancer fannions, the cravattes I make them, either with green stuff (the grenzen flag) or with the metal sheet on the spout of wine bottles.

And it doesn't have to be sunlight as the catalyst. Any light (incandescent or fluorescent)emits UV frequencies and can fade paper and colors over time. Even UV filters over the lights isn't effective over the long term.

Jim

Had the same issue and Graham replaced my flags.

Graham replaced my flags no Issue.

Love the cravattes btw.

Yes, I have had the same problem..

I have actually found varnishing them seems to speed up fading with the fading been more pronounced..

Not sure why this would be the case, but stopped varnishing a few years back. Some are still fading, or actually changing colour slightly, particularly the gold fringing etc.

Frustrating, but I suppose they are just pieces of paper coloured via some computer jet ink process.

I love GMB flags & will use nothing else, an am resigned to having to re-do my flags every 5 years or so..

I used a Testors Dullcoat spray sealer on a few of my GMB flags and the color changed. I've used any sealer at all since and no fading this far.

I've used brush on acrylic Gloss varnish, then spray Matt varnish to seal most of my flags for years.

Thus far no fading in almost twenty years.

The sad truth is that it depends on the ink they use. Sounds like they don't use the same ink with every batch, and at times they use an ink that will fade over time (color breakdown). Some inks do this over time even when not exposed to air (clear coated) or light.

Have you contacted the company about this?

As for a good solution, I have none. And replacing flags will not be fun.

Each pigment has a different resistance profile to UV light and/or solvents used in the varnish. For light resistance Yellow is normally the weakest and therefore very pronounced in the Austrian flags….this makes some flags look worse than others sadly as the fade is not even. The higher the coverage the more resistant to fade so the actual design has a big impact as well. The amount of UV absorber required in a varnish to stop the colour underneath fading is normally beyond the formulation possibilities unfortunately.
There is no simple answer I can see, as I am sure GMB is using the most resistant inks available for the process?

I imagine replacing the flags would be very hard to do without ruining the excellent paint job on the figures. I think I would be tempted to try touching up the flag with yellow paint before before I resorted to trying to remove the flag from the pole.

Will LED fade colors?

Does strike me that these flags are far from expensive, if one compares their cost with that of the figures, the investment in time that went into painting and finally basing them. Replacement, periodically, sounds a reasonable investment.

Did not know household lighting emitted UV of any significance, but now am concerned!. My GB flags have survived so far. Not sure (limited) fading does not add some authenticity anyway!

gmbdesigns.com

direct email address on the contact page of my site. As others have said, please do contact me Mr Kellerman. I don't have you on my customer records – I'd be emailing you if I did. I like to look after my customers.

Some of those are quite old prints. You may have bought them recently but they look to be old stock. The artwork for the 1815 French is quite different ( much better ) I changed it in early 2011.

I did for a short while have some bad pigments/ paper combination – I don't use that supplier or his products and haven't for several years. I still have some flags from 1999 on a shelf ( pre bad ink ) – slight fade but nothing like yours. Those look awful. Get in touch …quickly !

Regards

Grahame, GMB

gmbdesigns.com

Aha..

I think I've found you…email on it's way.

Grahame GMB

Told you Grahame would look after you ! :) Good Luck .

Just to mention that, indeed, Grahame has gallantly willed to replace my faded flags!

Now, I have the entire complement of Napoleon's Army of the North, The Prussian Army of the North Rhine and Wellington's lot. Every single unit. My GMB flags have all faded to pure white (overnight), such that they all seem to be offering a parley or surrender.

Doubtless Grahame will feel the urge to replace all my flags, ensigns, banners, etc……..

Only kidding……

Failing that, do me a Ural Cossacks' banner? Sasha and Summerfield between them have told me who should escort the Tsar….now I need banners of your quality!