"Flankers of the Guard" Topic

Col Elting describes them as "an experimental unit".

I'm thinking of adding them to my Imperial Guard.

Who else fields them?

There is a listing for them in Funcken's "Arms and Uniforms The Napoleonic Wars Part 2" along with a colored plate. "The Flanqueurs Chasseurs were formed as a single regiment on 23 March 1813 and were incorporated into the Young Guard on 26 December following. There were six companies in each battalion. The Flanqueurs were disbanded in 1814, and the men were transferred to the Infantry of the line. The uniform was a green coatee of the same cut as that of the Voltigeurs. They did not carry the short sword."

There were also Flanqueurs Grendiers. "The regiment was formed on 4 September 1811, and was recruited from the sons of employees of the Eaux et Forets (The government department responsible of the waterways and forests). They wore green coatees, the colour commemorating the forests of their birth, the lapels were square. The regiment was disbanded in 1814 and the men were dispersed among the regiments of the line."

They might be considered experimental in that it is my understanding that some were armed with rifles but I don't have the documentation at hand.

Jounineau and Mongin disagree in Vol 1 of "The French Imperial Guard", they have the Chasseurs as 1811-13 and the Grenadiers as 1811-14, but elsewhere as 1813 only. They say the former were offspring of Foresters etc but did not survive the First Restoration. They show one page with four figures in the green coat for Chasseurs and three pages for the Grenadiers, but with only a single sentence of text

I field them. They are an interesting addition/look to the 1813 and 1814 armies and can be flexibly rated based on scenario. Go for it.

There has been confusion over which of the two regiments were formed first. Many sources believe it was the Flanquers-Grenadiers, but Col Elting stated that further research indicated that the Flanquers-Chasseurs were formed and organized first.

B

I'm going out on a limb here but it seems to me they were intended as specialist skirmishers for Old & Middle Guard units who'd then be free to fight in traditional line or column.

However, as the trend towards 'universal infantryman' progressed, they were no longer needed. The Guard infantry, after all were highly capable of providing their own skirmish screens.

And the flankers ended up as just another line regiment, eventually culled to rationalise units.

"There has been confusion over which of the two regiments were formed first. Many sources believe it was the Flanquers-Grenadiers, but Col Elting stated that further research indicated that the Flanquers-Chasseurs were formed and organized first."

Who are these confused sources? The history of the organization of the guard of Napoléon was published in detail in 1821. And certainly has been treated many times since then. Also, the actual organizational decrees themselves were published before 1830, even the ones not printed in Le Monitor at the time of issuance.
So, who exactly was making so many mistakes until corrected by the late Colonel Elting?

"the Flanquers-Chasseurs were formed and organized first."
This is, actually, not so true.

The original creation was per decree of 4 September 1811 and stipulated only "un régiment de flanquers" to be drawn – nominally as volunteers – from the sons and nephews of various types of internal road and forest guards, as young as 18 years of age (2 years younger than typical for the French army). They were promised positions in those internal guard services after 5 years military service. The regiment was to be considered part of the corps of chasseurs à pied de la garde, and ranked as young guard with pay and seniority equal to the 5e & 6e volitiguers de la garde.

Other than the unusual recruitment and green uniforms, I know nothing of this unit (organization, tactical employment, weapons issued, etc.) that would in any way differentiate them from the other later young guard formations in the corps of chasseurs.

They were sent to Russia and very, very few survived.
The colonel vicomte Anatole de Montesquiou, baron de Fezensac et de l'Empire, (an aide-de-camp to the maréchal major-général prince Berthier) wrote of the regiment in mid-July 1812, less than one month into the campaign :
"We encountered several regiments of the young guard; I noticed among them the regiment of flankers, composed of very young guys. This regiment had left Saint-Dénis, and had had no rest save for one day in Mayence and one at Marienwader on the Vistula ; during their march they were made to drill each day after their arrival [in camp], because the Emperor had not found them sufficiently well-instructed. And so this regimetn was the first to be destroyed [in the Russian campaign] – already the soldiers were beside the road, dead of exhaustion."

Per the decree of 25 March 1813, the débris of the flankers regiment was used to form small cadres for the creation of two new regiments made up of conscripts : the flanquers-grenadiers and flanquers-chasseurs. So, to be perfectly precise, these two regiments were created at the same time.

- Sasha

Sasha

I am impressed. Suddenly everything I have read makes sense. Folk say this unit did not exist till 1813, others say 1811. That unit came before the other, no, it was the other way around.

You have explained it all so well.

My worry is this. This all might seem a trivial issue, but not one of my books explains this as you have. Forgive my ignorance of the internet, but will this now be knowledge open to all….or will someone ask the same question in two years' time?

If I Google Flanquers de la Garde in 2017 (God willing) will I then learn, once and for all, why all the info seems so contradictory? You are wrong in only one way. There are many contradictory sources and you have worked wonders here.

Deadhead,

Do you "speaka my language"? If you do ….

It is not so hard. For the French guard, always start with "L'histoire de la ex-Garde", published 1821 and available on Gallica : gallica.bnf.fr

Then, for confirmation and details ….

Search google books in French for "décret du 12 septembre 1812" or whatever as noted in the Histoire.

Take the names of the commanders as shown in the Histoire and go over to the Base Leonore (the Légion d'honneur dosseirs) and check their état de service for dates, unit nomnclature, etc. This will likely not work if the officer was KIA or non-French. But most of these will have a detailed bio somewhere on the web.

Lastly, re-confirm with the available annuaires de l'état-militaire (only a few years are available) and the Almanach impérial pour l'année 1812 (or whatever year). Most of the later can be found on Gallica or google books.
If you have trouble with google books, and are not in the USA, find a free online proxy server in the USA or use the Tor onion browser.
See : torproject.org

The French line units are harder, but the guards are pretty much "open source" these days.

:-)

And if you don't have French?
Probably better to ask here and/or on napoleon-series.org than spend lots of euros/dollars/pounds on modern secondary/tertiary English-language sources.

- Sasha

P.S. – The old posts on TMP and napoleon-series.org are still "reachable". However, the local search functions on these sites are, at best, poor. Better is to go to a regular google search and do :
site:theminiaturespage.com searchword
or
site:napoleon-series.org "search phrase"
The google indexing is excellent for both sites.

Mais naturalement. Je parle le Francais tres bon, je pense a moi meme…….

Seriously, these are really good tips Alexandre. Murky bucket….thankyou en Francais.

Some more "stuff" that might be nice ….

More from the much-esteemed (and sadly banned form TMP) Steven H. Smith ….
link

Also ….
TMP link
See, especially, posts by "Chuvak" – the screen-name "chuvak" is rather dated (mostly southern) Russian slang, a little low-class, but not strictly criminal, for a "guy" about whom the speaker bears a positive opinion …. maybe like "brother" is used in modern working-class idiom in the USA.

- Sasha

They're in my Guard :)

Flanquer Grenadiers :

Flanquer Chasseurs :

Fabulous! Impossible to have too many Guard battalions, surely?!

Well, thank you! Nice photos.

My Imperial Guard has 14 battalions of infantry. I find I only trot it out for our mega-games but, like Napoleon, I find it comforts me to know its there.

The full title of the Histoire de la ex-Garde is:

Histoire de la ex-Garde Depuis sa Formation Jusqu'a son Licencienment Comprenant

Les Faits Generaux des Campagnes de 1805 a 1815
son organisation, sa solde, ses indemnites, le rang, le service, La discipline, les uniformes de ses diverse corps

Termine Par une biographie des chefs superieurs de la Garde

It is also available on Google Books.

B

Thanks, Brechtel.

You're very welcome.

B

Whoa, Napoleon really was ahead of his time.

Is it only me or do "Funcken" and "Flanquer" generate childish style giggles?

No it works for me too. When put together it sounds like the kind of thing Muttley used to say under his breath when he was swearing at Dick Dastardly.

YouTube link

@Julianmizzi. Do you have a link to any more pictures of your army? I would like to see more.

Gday Wargame Insomniac,

If you goggle my name and photobucket it should pick up the pics to my armies.

There are a number of albums including US Civil war.( The Civil war figures are a friends though )