"U.S. Airstrikes Are Having A Minimal Impact" Topic

… On The Islamic State's Military Capabilities

"After more than three months of air attacks against ISIS forces in Iraq and Syria, U.S. intelligence and defense officials say minimal progress has been made toward President Barack Obama's stated goal to "degrade and destroy" the Islamic terror group.

Intelligence gathered over the past several weeks, which was being presented at a classified briefing for senators on Wednesday, indicates that while airstrikes have stalled offensives by ISIS forces in some areas, in at least one aspect, ISIS appears to be growing stronger despite the bombing.

"The trajectory of foreign fighters is ticking up," said one U.S. intelligence official, who like the others spoke with NBC News on condition of anonymity. The official cautioned that the figures U.S. intelligence has compiled are estimates and that analysts have "limited insight" into the number of foreign fighters arriving from the West…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

So has it been said previously … As I said on other threads here. It appears, that many of the non-jihadist, non-islamists/ terrorists are showing their true colors. Or have been convinced to do so by ISIS, etc. …

Rolling Thunder.

Works for me …

Let's see: the current administration is using a $200 USD million jet to drop $75,000 USD bombs on … pickup trucks.

And people need to discuss why the current air campaign isn't moving along?

Well … we could drop cheaper bombs …

An air campaign alone has NEVER won a war. Ever.

Either we train the Kurds&all and let them kill the DAESHbags, or we send Americans&all ("boots on the ground") in to do it.

Personally, I'm tempted to put a few (hundred) B52s on orbit over Syria, and smash anything and everything that tries to lock onto them.

I think the plan is to train the locals. The airstrikes are not meant to "win" the war, merely to attrit the ISIS forces so the locals friendlies get some breathing room – in that it has been successful.

Massive US BOTG was done … twice … And to do the same today would be somewhat ignoring lessons learned. Massive airstrikes, drones, TLAMs, etc., as mentioned, to reduce ISIS capabiliities and give[hope] the locals can be the BOTG to do what has to be done. Regardless of that … increasing airstrikes by massive proportions, killing [many] more of "the bad guys", ie: ISIS, AQ et al. looks like the short term "fix" for now. Huge piles of dead jihadists/terrorists/fanatical islamists, etc. on a massive scale seems like a move in the right direction, IMO …

The first air strikes stopped the IS from moving on Irbil. That's all they are good for, stopping IS from making moves. Meanwhile, the local troops must do the fighting on the ground.

If the IS gets scads of recruits, how is that a problem for anyone but the IS? They don't have unlimited arms to equip the recruits with. More recruits simply means that the IS uses up its stockpiles faster….

Huge piles of dead jihadists/terrorists/fanatical islamists, etc. on a massive scale seems like a move in the right direction, IMO …

Sure cause that worked well the first several times.

The problem is in itself a dogma that is true to the original prophet – intolerant and rooted in violence (Mohamad was a warlord and waged war).

And that dogma belongs to a religion practised a quarter of the human population. And when its mainstream is getting ever more conservative, the fringe gets even worse.

What is needed is an Islamic Enlightenment or Rennaissance. But it seems they're all very keen to recreate 629 AD.

And the West is too gutless to tackle the true sources of terrorism – the Persian Gulf states.

In essence we have the same thing the Russians are doing – frozen conflict.

And frozen conflict only serves the interests of the jihadis.

Huge piles of dead jihadists/terrorists/fanatical islamists, etc. on a massive scale seems like a move in the right direction, IMO …

Sure cause that worked well the first several times.

What is needed is an Islamic Enlightenment or Rennaissance. But it seems they're all very keen to recreate 629 AD.

Until your hoped for mythical Islamic Enlightenment happens. I'll continue to believe massive piles of dead jihadists/terrorists/fanatical islamists, at this time is the thing to do. Until, they et al: decide to become part of the 20th let alone 21st Century.

Until your hoped for mythical Islamic Enlightenment happens. I'll continue to believe massive piles of dead jihadists/terrorists/fanatical islamists, at this time is the thing to do. Until, they et al: decide to become part of the 20th let alone 21st Century.

I don't think massive piles of dead will achieve much.

Islam is growing massively – between now and 2100 the Muslim population will from 25-ish% to 40-ish% of the population.

Islamic countries are embracing conservative Islam more and more, thus providing a continuing pool of recruits.

At some point, the Western countries will also become Islamic enough to mark a policy shift from being anti-jihad to being either neutral or even actively pro-jihadi. You don't need Muslim majority to do that, just enough to become important swing-voters.

Already some European countries are shifting support from Israel and are favouring Palestinian independence.

Basically they'll keep fighting until we eventually become part of the 7th century.

In that case let the Russians rumble armoured corps through Eastern Europe to save at least some fraction of western civilisation.

I don't think massive piles of dead will achieve much.

Well based on your "jihadapocalyse" theory Thomas … The more killed now … will mean that many less we'll have to kill later. Which is always one of my favorite Grunt concepts … And I'm pretty sure with only a 1% moslem population in the US … There is a better chance of the US going Amish then moslem …. As far as the Russians, we can only hope … As I have said before, Russians are much more like the US/West than any moslem country, off the top of my head. And as I have said before. The US made two strategic errors in the recent past. Supporting the Muj against the USSR. Plus the Second invasion of Iraq … As hindsight is usually 20/20 … we know or should know by now, those were errors that helped devolve the current situation in both countries …

Well based on your "jihadapocalyse" theory Thomas … The more killed now … will mean that many less we'll have to kill later.

With such massive population growth rates and massive spread of fundamentalism, you're going to need a lot more than random airstrikes.

That's my problem – it's all the equivalent of "lip service."

We need better strategies to eliminate domestic terror threat and stabilise Muslim radicalism in Muslim parts of the world.

And I'm pretty sure with only a 1% moslem population in the US

Yep and it's one of the fastest growing migrant groups in USA.

In Western Europe they've gone from negligible in 1960s to anywhere up to 6% in mere decades. In Australia there were virtually none up to 1980s, now they're 2% of population and growing (and numerous terrorist plots thwarted in the last 10 years).

And they maintain high birth rates and most studies show retention of conservative religiousness at significantly higher rates than other migrant groups.

We need better strategies to eliminate domestic terror threat and stabilise Muslim radicalism in Muslim parts of the world.

Dare I say, "Amen" !

And I'm pretty sure with only a 1% moslem population in the US

Yep and it's one of the fastest growing migrant groups in USA.

Are you kidding !? With all the good old boys, KKK, Neo-Nazis, survivalists, Born Agains, Mormons, Bikers, former Grunts [like me !], etc., etc. all armed … that ain't gonna happen … And be clear, I'm none of those, save for the former Grunt part …

Yep and one of the fastest growing migrant groups in USA

Um, perhaps you aren't aware of the porous border shared with Mexico? In States like CA, upwards of 40% of the population are now Hispanic.

I'm sure you probably also may not be aware that Canada provides the second biggest group of illegal immigrants into the USA?

Lastly, you seem to think that "moslem" somehow captures all of the multiple sects and divided ethnicities that exist. In reality, the "moslems" all hate each other with great passion and are doing a great job of killing themselves off. Been going on for 800 years. Leave them to it.

At least for the USA, the more we become energy self-efficient, the faster we can detach ourselves from that region of endless war.

Well Thomas is an Aussie … not Yank or Canuck … And good point, it appears, the different moslem sects, ethinicities, tribes, etc. may very well hate each other more than they hate us ! On the other hand, the #1 oil importer to the US is Canada at 17%, then Mexico at @ 11%. Oil from the Middle East to the US is may be @ 8-9% ? However, many US trade partners still do get large amounts of oil from the Middle East. Maybe the US and Canada should start selling more oil to those trade partners. Then letting them continue to get Middle East oil. Of course this is all easiers said than done. But I'd like to tell most of OPEC to pound salt !

may not be aware that Canada provides the second biggest group of illegal immigrants into the USA?

That's fine with me … usually Canucks don't crash planes into US buildings, bomb the Boston Marathon, etc., etc., … and have some pretty hot babes too !

When it comes to Sunnis though, fundamentalism is a unifying force that transcends ethnic, sectarian and cultural lines.

That's fine with me … usually Canucks don't crash planes into US buildings, bomb the Boston Marathon, etc., etc., … and have some pretty hot babes too !

Very true, but them Canadians sure do talk funny! ;)

When it comes to Sunnis though, fundamentalism is a unifying force that transcends ethnic, sectarian and cultural lines.

And yet ISIS and others still kill other Sunnis along with Shia, their tradional "arch" enemy … And it has been said many times, moslems kill more moslems than any infidels, non-believers, Christians, Jews, etc., etc. do …

Very true, but them Canadians sure do talk funny!

I'm willing to deal that …

Defence Secretary Chuck Hagel has resigned. One of quoted reasons was lack of proper strategy over Iraq and Syria including lack of clarifty regarding Assad, overall timidness of campaign etc.

dawn.com/news/1146776/behind-hagels-ouster-tensions-over-syria-and-obamas-team

And Islamic State has just launched another offensive in Anbar:

bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-23/iraq-premier-orders-aid-to-anbar-amid-islamic-state-offensive.html

How the hell is this even possible with the world's premier air forces providing support to the Iraqis?

It shows how truly minimal the impact of current air operations is.

Yes, with Mr. Hagel hanging it up … it does not bode well for the efforts to stem the ISIS cancer. However, hopefully this situation will only endure for another couple of years or so. But by then it might be too late ? Could this be another case of "Lions let by rabbits" ?

At least for the USA, the more we become energy self-efficient, the faster we can detach ourselves from that region of endless war.

Not until the US ceases petroleum use or the Middle East runs out of liquid dinosaurs. Until then, the US (and everyone else) will be highly affected by speculators and/or the oil cartel.

How the hell is this even possible with the world's premier air forces providing support to the Iraqis?

It's pretty simple, really. All it takes is for Washington (whether White House or Pentagon) making tactical decisions on what to attack. By the time the politicians have decided that it's OK to attack that specific target, the target is no longer available to attack or attacking it will mean nothing, like blowing up a truck after it's unloaded 4 tons of explosives someplace…

Liquid dinosaurs – I like that.