"The Amazing Value of TMP" Topic

Someone – I won't give his real name, though he was man enough to give it to me – sent me this message recently:

I don't know why I care at all about your activities – you really are a vile little ass who really should be beneath any contempt – yet your hypocrisy, dishonesty, and arrogant myopia, are entertaining to watch. Forums are dying all over the internet – their time has come and gone. Many I'll miss. Yours I will not. Good Riddance.

I told him I was glad I gave him at least some entertainment, and wished him a nice day.

What on earth stirs a few people up so much, to hate me? I'm just a webmaster. I run a hobby website. I try to bring pleasure into people's lives. Yet some people talk as if I rank up there with Hitler and Pol Pot!

What I've come to realize is that this "hatred" is actually a back-handed compliment to TMP. These are people who, by and large, have been cut off from being part of the TMP community because of their inability to live by the few, simple forum rules we have. And they miss TMP!

As a confirmation of this, consider the sad population of ex-TMPers over on a certain other website. They claim to hate TMP… but they can't stop coming back! All day long, they talk about TMP!

So this hatred by a few just goes to show how much most of you love and enjoy our little part of the internet.

Negative attention is sometimes just as valuable as positive attention if harnessed correctly.

It's when either attention stops that you start becoming irrelevant.

Keep up the good work.

Sometimes the line between love and hate can be quite thin.

I wouldn't let it bother me. Consider the source.

What on earth stirs a few people up so much, to hate me?

They have *issues*, a lot of unresolved anger and frustration, that they need to vent. You have crossed their paths and angered them in some way. You are unlikely ever to meet face-to-face and punch them in the nose. So brace yourself, Bill, for another load of projectile vomiting. You're just the object, you're not really the cause.

Game forums are SERIOUS BUSINESS.

Fortunately myopia can be treated. Providing entertainment is a gift to be valued.

Yea, I don't really get it either.

I really enjoy TMP, which helps keep me up to date with the latest miniatures, rules, and other gaming item releases, and also good info on ultra-modern developments.

Without it, I would be in the dark on many subjects, so you are definitely providing an excellent resource, and service to the hobby, which is much appreciated.

Some people are just bitter about life, I guess.

Keep up the good work, Bill!

Bill,

Don't let a few low-rent types get you down.

Most of us have as much love and respect for your site as to far outshine any lesser life form.

Vince

Now we all know the truth – Dear Editor's real name is Adolf Pot.

Perhaps he or she thinks you're a bully?

Perhaps he or she thinks you're a bully?

Then I think they've never met a real bully. Eight days on TMP… do you think I'm a bully, David?

I think part of it is that I get to play the role of moderator on the forums, and as all baseball players know, everybody hates the umpire.

I think Zippy is spot on. Again, ignore the negative and the banal they are not worth the time.

BTW TMP is great!

Because "they" were so eager to see TMPers heads explode in religious wrath over your "other" activities.
They see TMP a hotbed of tea bagging intolerant Republicans who hate and despise those different blah blah blah.
Thus we are expected to condemn you and TMP.

They are stunned that we (mostly) do not give a .
Their hypocrisy is amusing. They are amazed that we are not spouting the slurs that come so naturally to them.
But what do you expect from a site where they are so proud of their freedom to insult each other by calling each other women's private parts.

Anybody who can invest that amount of venom in a hobby forum is undoubtedly a loser in real life. I have gamed with many guys (and a hand full of women)---rich, poor, good-looking, bad, successful and unsuccessful who tie their self esteem in with a hobby. I usually give them a second try in case they'd simply had a bad day. Usually not.

To quote the great modern philosopher--Dilbert--"Avoid meetings with time-wasting morons." And check the TMP twice a day. Thanks for the service, Bill.

Every one hates the unfair, biased umpire

But the unbiased, fair umpire is also despised.

Military History, Toy Soldiers and Tantrums……What could be a better entertainment value.

On frequent occasion -- as when I am writing or designing rules or scenarios -- I have indeed found TMP an amazing value.

TMP is still my favourite Wargaming website, and despite a small number of bad people, it remains a great site.

Live long and prosper Chief Editor Bill!

I really enjoy TMP and keep coming back every day. People who throw temper tantrums just haven't grown up or matured in life. Their still kids who want everything in life their way.

You're nobody until somebody hates you.

This site is my most valuable internet resource for my hobbies. The community is helpful and friendly, and even the people who disagree with me and I sometimes disagree with seem to be fine folks in general. Just because we don't agree doesn't make anyone the bad guy.

Ignore-psych wards have lower budgets and have to let patients like him/her go.
'Forums are dying..'-I haven't noticed, probably banned by most od them.

You're doing great-can't wait to see the new TMP.

What on earth stirs a few people up so much, to hate me?

Oooh! I know this one.

Ahem : Haterz gotta hate !

Thank you internet, I am now so wise.

I hear ya Doug.And that goes for those who feel the need to create new accounts and continue their little vendetta against Bill and TMP.Though it is somewhat entertaining that they believe doing so will accomplish anything other then the other members ignoring or ridiculing then. Well that and having the account locked LOL.

Don't get a swelled head Bill. It has nothing to do with you.

The internet does not improve communication, in fact it stifles is. Persons on the other end of the electrons are not persons at all, but disembodied entities of shadowy and dubious reality- very much like "They" in the phrase "They say…" or "Them" (not the big ants, the people responsible for everything."

The problem is that social interaction is quickly drying up, along with the civility that goes with it, and this is especially true with the decline of face to face socialization which of course, never happens on the internet. This leads to a feeling, a sensation of "anomie" that one is indeed alone in the world and thereby, the only human being left. What comes out then is a seething anger looking for any outlet to vent itself. Everyone else becomes a "they" or a "them"

The second dimension is that the internet unlike a face to face conversation or a phone conversation does not necessitate a reply. Comments on the internet can be presented more or less as a "Diktat" to the recipient, and the sender is in no sense obliged or forced to read a reply. You see this every day in business where people send ut e-mails but never open responses- why, because it might contain bad news or opposite opinion, and when something doesn't go wrong the universal excuse is "I sent him an e-mail." (with the understood text of "I haven't the faintest idea, if he read it, understood it, or responded to it, that's not my problem." Similarly, if someone else sends them a "Diktat" the universal excuse is "I never got it, the computer ate it, the dog ate my homework." Want to make sure they don't read it? Just put a "the sender of this note requires a response." No one will ever open it up.

In this state of increasing anomie where we are bombarded with information in every means from every source the pressure for some becomes unendurable and the anomie and frustration reach the boiling point. Therefore hostility and hate is vented through "The Diktat" to any and all who are seen or come within range.

Don't believe me, look at the responses on the MSN news stories.

Bill, sometimes you can be a bully or wacky, but most of the time you're doing great.

But you know, lets keep mentioning it because that will make it go away. Unless of course that isnt the intention.

Bill, From my observations you have more patience that anyone I know. You do a great job providing a place to learn about a hobby, to learn about history and to learn a little about human nature. Thank you and keep up the good work.

But you know, lets keep mentioning it because that will make it go away. Unless of course that isnt the intention.

So, Pete, I'm guessing you think I have some nefarious reason for sharing this? Some scheme to drive up hits, promote disharmony, and rake in the cash?

Nope. I just felt like sharing.

the old saying:
"What you think of me, is none of my business"

comes to mind.

wow do some of these folks realize there is a real world outside of the confines of the internet?

No, they are loons. Here's a recent sample:

I will be contacting both the national press and very possibly even the law enforcement agencies to uncover his strange and possibly dangerous behaviour.
People need to know he is secretively grooming these vunerable women for whatever sinister purpose – for use as either as his own "sister wives" or to connect them with western men for sexual liasons.

What an imagination!

Because "they" were so eager to see TMPers heads explode in religious wrath over your "other" activities.
They see TMP a hotbed of tea bagging intolerant Republicans who hate and despise those different blah blah blah.
Thus we are expected to condemn you and TMP.

They are stunned that we (mostly) do not give a Bleeped text.
Their hypocrisy is amusing. They are amazed that we are not spouting the slurs that come so naturally to them.
But what do you expect from a site where they are so proud of their freedom to insult each other by calling each other women's private parts.

+100. The cognitive dissonance is head-splitting.

But I don't think the root cause is hypocrisy. I don't think the perps have enough self-reflection and insight to be hypocritical on this point. I think this is the most massive, unselfconscious case of psychological projection I've ever seen. And I've seen some doozies.

Bill *must* be a sexual predator/economic exploiter, because that's what *they'd* do in a heartbeat, if they had his opportunities. Oh, how they hate Bill for the filthy, callous, cruel, delicious opportunities that he has.

I've learned something in recent years. Power… how ever small will be resisted and envied. I was a tabletop group president for a bit. I had to resign and abolish the position because several members fought me at every turn and whispered in the dark trying to over throw my rule. A rule that was forced on me when no one else would do it.

Now I help run a local game store and the same few are fighting me every day. Convincing people we are horrible people and rip people off. They sit up at the other store the club ran out of and whisper about us all day.

My only conclusion is that it all boils down to jealousy. I have something they want. Even if it is a small amount of power that gets me no pay and works me to death. They can't get it and despise that I have it. Even though I work 100+ hours a week to keep it while they paint tanks and whine about me and a few others.

Don't let the minority get to you. Then they win and they can't win because it just means they destroyed what you worked for and have done nothing to benefit the world themselves.

OMG! Bill and Zippy. I just about choked on my dinner! LOL It is just mind boggling that actually think what you posted is true. LOL.

So, Pete, I'm guessing you think I have some nefarious reason for sharing this? Some scheme to drive up hits, promote disharmony, and rake in the cash?

Nope. I just felt like sharing.

I don't think its anything nefarious at all, because no offence I just don't think you are that clever.

I couldn't care less how you raise hits on TMP, it is your business and it would be silly for you NOT to make attempts to increase your potential hits and therefore income.

Its more like a dog worrying at a wounded leg. You just can't let it go. Why communicate ANY of this with your "customers"? I have some real frustrations internally at my work, I don't communicate it to my clients because it is unprofessional.
Coming back here and posting continually about what nasty things has been said about you every time someone sends you an email is getting ridiculous. It has become a touchstone for you, an almost feral "us and them" tribal mentality.

Frothers (There, I said the bad word, DH me at will) is just a website. TMP is just a website. I owe loyalty to neither. You however should ignore Frothers and concentrate on TMP, which is not just a website to you, it is your place of business. To treat it otherwise is far from sensible.

No, they are loons. Here's a recent sample:

I will be contacting both the national press and very possibly even the law enforcement agencies to uncover his strange and possibly dangerous behaviour.
People need to know he is secretively grooming these vunerable women for whatever sinister purpose – for use as either as his own "sister wives" or to connect them with western men for sexual liasons.
What an imagination!

that was one person Bill, and no one on Frothers agreed with them and told them they thought it was wrong. Whilst some have gone too far with comments over there, you are tarring everyone who goes there with the same brush and selectively cutting and pasting to get everyone here to follow that view. That's not fair on those over there who are not saying similar, nor are bad mouthing TMP every moment they can or doing any of the other nefarious things that get reported here. The first genuine Frother who commented after that post told them it was stupid. Anything mentioned here about what is said over there is never fully put in context and seems to be just to drive up the us vs them over here and rally the troops. I am a member of both and dislike people and parts of both sites. I do try to stay out of it on the main, sometimes I may say something on one site or the other if I think someone has gone too far or is being racist/homophobic/an arseclown etc. I have nothing personally against you and haven't said anything along those lines, nor do I have anything against TMP. Yes I think some here are slightly loony ass kissing suck up types and a lot seem to have very racist beliefs, but I stifle them (or mock them within the rules).
I have in the past been a supporting member here so I have put my money where my mouth is. I won't do it anymore, not because of anything other than I do not like some aspects of the site now and some of the more vocal residents who seem to have a carte blanche as to what they can say and do. However I do still come back and peruse many of the boards as there are still some good people here within the chaff if one looks hard enough and some useful and interesting gaming stuff posted. Please stop continuing to make out all of us over at Frothers have some hatred of you or TMP. Some do, others find it all amusing, some don't like the type of people here now, and the majority don't care either way and avoid it all. I can see from a lot of the comments on here many share the same view and I certainly don't like zippyfusenet hinting I would be a sexual predator given the chance '*must* be a sexual predator/economic exploiter, because that's what *they'd* do in a heartbeat'. In fact, that is close to breaking the law. He who casts the first stone Zippy.
Well, at least this thread has given me more grey boxes when I come here as I know who to stifle/ignore

Sorry, I'm having a bad day and I probably shouldn't post when I'm in this kind of depression but sod it.

I find all of this, here and there, rather pathetic. I don't want to go into the ins and outs of the various grievances that some there have against Bill, nor the other way around. because to do so would mean a locked account – there have been quite a few posts here that have been deleted and the posters gone that explained in reasoned terms what those grievances were. Yes, there were some rather nasty ones and good to see them go, but others have been ingloriously culled and so the reader here is only left with Bill's impression of why things are as they are. of course you could just pop over to Frothers and read over a thousand pages of stuff to get the picture (be prepared to spend ages sorting the wheat from the chaff). Oh, and of course you will be "filth" if you do – guilty by association apparently, but then again a good number of regular posters here also frequent Frothers so good-oh, according to Bill's logic you are filth too. And on the balance of probabilities Bill goes there as well, so he's tarred himself with the same brush. Oh well, at least thats fair I guess. Over on Frothers there are a fair number of posters recommending to Angel Barracks that he just forgets the unpleasantness with Bill and gets on with his site. That would be a bloody good piece of advice for Bill to follow too. Drop it, because TBH some of the threads and posts here recently have begun to look rather pathetic and desperate. And whoever it is on this site (naming no names but its not difficult to narrow down the list of suspects to a small handful) stop going over to Frothers and stirring up a storm there. Yes, the proposed letter "outing" Bill to his church elders was pathetic and stupid – but then again someone likely from here doing something similar to a regular Frother was equally so, and probably precipitated the letter to the elders.

Bottom line – everybody just grow up and act your age. What we are seeing here and elsewhere would disgrace a school playground.

A man is known by the enemies he keeps

I certainly don't like zippyfusenet hinting I would be a sexual predator given the chance '*must* be a sexual predator/economic exploiter, because that's what *they'd* do in a heartbeat'. In fact, that is close to breaking the law.

If you're not one of the perps, Alien, the argument doesn't apply to you. Just walk on by, like the other sane members at Frothers. Or stifle me, or sue me (snort), any way you like it.

I can't help noticing how much of the raw anti-Mormon bigotry that gets flung at Bill centers on polygamy, those delicious, forbidden, under-age sister-wives. I'm gonna pop that fevered fantasy for ya, gents.

Polygamy is just a domestic arrangement, one of several, that's been followed in many lands for thousands of years and is legal today in much of the world. It's a form of marriage, that social institution that so many of you are frightened of, allergic to and unfit for.

Overall, polygamy is about as tame and boring as any form of marriage. The wives don't lounge around in harem pants all the time. Mostly they cook dinner, wash dishes, change the baby, argue with the husband, dull domestic stuff.

Overall, polygamy may be less economically productive than serial monogamy, which may be why we've outlawed the one and practice the other in most of the First World.

Finally, there are people today illegally practicing polygamy in the United Kingdom, and very few of them are Mormons. You anti-Mormon bigots (not you, Alien): Stop projecting your fevered fantasies on an innocent third party and deal with your present reality.

There. Sue me.

nope, no suing, am happy to walk by, was just (and wasn't personal btw just a convenient example) showing how other people are getting tarred by the same brush.
Not sure why you bought up the polygamy argument. To me, the worst thing about that is numerous mother in laws! ;-)
Nothing against Mormons either, a good friend of mine is one, I generally find all religions amusing and merely a way of trying to control people, I believe in God in my own way and he and I are fine with that *smile*

Rod Serling would have loved the internet.

I just giggled in particular at his assertion that the time of internet forums have come and gone. What numbers did he pull out of his ass to justify that assertion?

-Will

I saw this somewhere and I'm paraphrasing, but I thought it salient to the original point: It is one thing to turn the other cheek, quite another to turn the other cheek and run to your tightly controlled web page and brag about it so that people will tell you how much they like you

Wow! David Lopan, I thought Jack Burton killed you. Until I saw this.

YouTube link

I have met a lot of nice people and fellow enthusiasts through wargaming – and indeed the wargamers I have met in person primarily as a result of internet contacts have been pretty much the same and a pleasure to meet.

This whole forum rivalry thing I don't get, however – and it seems to bring out the worst in people.

I generally let it wash over me. I am happy to shake people's hands at shows and judge them as I find them in person. And that is invariably positive.

Do try to remember that, folks …

Phil

Zippy is right. The driving force behind it is anti-Mormon bigotry. Which is a subset of anti-Christian bigotry. Which is a subset of anti religion in general bigotry.

It could always be worse, Bill – you could have posted something about misogyny in video games and gotten death threats.

Doug