"Spanish organisation (simple)" Topic

I have just picked up some boxes of HaT's new 1/72 range of Spanish infantry, so have line, grenadiers, light infantry (with blankets) and officers.

So a quick question – do they organise like the French – ie a battalion with line, light and grenadiers, or are they separate units? I game 1:20 scale, so any helpful suggestions on how to sort these into units gratefully received.

Thanks guys

Pre 1810 they had 4 companies to a battalion – 2 grenadier and 2 fusilier in the first battalion, all fusilier in the second and third (if present.) Strength was about 160 men per company on paper, 120 more typically. Line regiments had no light infantry companies, but there were separate light infantry regiments, which had a single huge battalion of 1200 men – 6 companies of 200. Unlike the line, the light regiments were frequently actually up to strength; they were sometimes split into two 600 man half-battalions as being less unwieldy.

They had a partial reorganisation in 1810 (line infantry went to 6 companies – roughly 1 of 100 grenadiers, 1 of 100 lights, and 4 of 150 fusiliers – no idea why the flank companies were smaller than the fusilier ones….)

They then had a complete overhaul in 1812, when most regiments became a single battalion of 1 light, 1 grenadier and 6 fusilier companies – not sure on company strength after then, but I'd guess at maybe 80 or so.

The uniforms in teh HaT boxes look very neat so I am guessing they are pre 1810 – thanks Dom, really helpful

Here are the descriptions from the Plastic Soldier Review web site:

Line Infantry: link

Light Infantry: link

Command: link

Grenadiers: link

According to the reviews, they are all in the 1806 (or so) uniform which would match the fits organization Dom gave, above.

Jim

Haha! You asks your question; you gets your answer. I love this site!

Indeed – and I wasappreciative that the answer was simple – I half expected someone to tell me to buy a load of expensive books and do my own research, which was not what I was looking for at all…

I like the early Spanish organization because it is unique, the only thing close to it is 1805 Austrians.

With the pre-1810 organisation how did the companies of the first battalions line up in the field? Were the grenadiers at either end of the line?

In the period in which the Spanish had the uniform and organisation we are discussing (1808 summer & winter campaign) most regts had two batts together in the field (usually 1st & 3rd) while the other (reserve/depot) batt was mobilising. Indeed the cadres of many 2nd batts back at the depot were used to form entirely new regiments in summer autumn 1808. The battalion in the Spanish army was also an administrative rather that fighting unit. Normally, before a battle, the 2 coys of grenadiers from the 1st batts of pre-war regiments would – as with the Austrians – be merged into grenadier battalions (often from 3 regiments, so 6 coys per batt) whilst the remaining 2 coys of the 1st batt would merge with the other (3rd) batt to form one tactical battalion of 6 coys. This was still the case in the Talavera campaign in which Cuesta's army had a couple of "columnas de granaderos" in its reserve. There were a couple of regiments that fielded three batts (Ordones militares at Baylen; Cantabria at Talavera) but these seem to have been exceptions. So: in practice, you can choose from (a) 2 batt regiment with 1st batt 2x grenadier coys + 2x normal; 2nd/3rd batt with 4 coys; (b) 1 batt regiment of 4 normal coys (isolated battalion – it happened); (c) 1 batt regiment of 6 normal coys (2 merged in from 1st batt). Plus of course you can have a "columna de granaderos" in the uniform of 2 or 3 regiments. Hope that helps rather than confuses. As usual with the Spanish you get a choice, some leeway, and have to make your own decision!

Thanks Teodoro Reding. That's great. There's clearly scope to form some very colourful converged grenadier battalions.

I based my Spanish experiment on this using the HaT figures:

Division of the North
La Romana Division 1808
Pedro Caro, 3rd Marquis of la Romana

Line Infantry:
Asturias (2,103), 
Guadalajara (2,069), 
Princesa (1,969),
Zamora (2,096).

light infantry:
1st of Barcelona (1,266)
1st of Catalonia (1,164).

The heavy cavalry regiments:
Rey Nr. 1 (634), 
Infante Nr. 4 (615),
Algarve Nr. 9 (572).

The Light Cavalry:
Almanza Nr. 3 (598)
Villaviciosa Nr. 5 (628).

Four foot artillery batteries.

Information on all the foregoing is readily available on the 'net. The problem of course is a lack of cavalry and artillery. A couple of conversions look feasible for the cavalry but the artillery not so easy. HaT's French 1805 Artillery are near but don't win any prizes as Spanish up close.

Teo – that is interesting as well. So I think I will buy one more box of line infantry and paint up two battalions – one mixed, one all line, plus a light battalion.

After that, if I enjoy, I may paint up another half battalion of grenadiers and then I could field a 4 cos grens, a 6 cos line (and the light).

Excellent stuff. Thanks all.

Next is to think of colours…

How about this colour to start, Marc?
link

Marc, if you're interested in a historical basis to which pre-war regiments you choose, at the start of the war the small Spanish army was heavily concentrated in 4 or 5 places – there were hardly any troops anywhere else (except Guards and Swiss around Madrid):

(A) Galicia (Ferrol + Coruna the naval bases, defending against possible British attacks): this became the Army of Galicia and Blake the commander did NOT fill up his veteran regiments before moving them to the front, so they all wore their nice uniforms, like the Romana Division. Recruits were put in new regiments, which Blake left behind in the summer campaign (Medina del Rio Seco).

(B) The Romana Division, which cameronian gave details mentioned, was in Denmark but was rescued by the British fleet (except Guadalajara, Asturias and the Algarve cavalry) and delivered to the Army of Galicia in time for the Battle of Espinosa in November (where they did very well indeed). The infantry that got home – and to Espinosa – were:
-Zamora (3 batts) 54 offs 1757 men
-Princesa (3 batts) 62 offs 1953 men
-1st Catalonia (light: 1802 uniform): 44 offs 1066 men
-1st Barcelona (light: 1805 uniform, shako, green side plume) 39 off 1205 men

(C) The Army of Andalucia (under Castanos) blockading Gibraltar – and Castanos DID fill up his veteran regiments, each veteran keeping his bicorn and jacket and handing over to the recruit his fatigue jacket (white with facings colour on colour and cuffs and forage cap (nightcap style, white piped facing colour).

(D) the small garrison of Majorca (defending against the British who had pinched Minorca when they took Gibraltar) – who were shipped to Catalonia (wearing their nice uniforms) for the Battle of Cardadeu (December)

– plus finally (E) the army occupying Portugal that either got captured by the French or evaded to join either the Army of Galicia or of Andalucia – so are irrelevant.

So 4 options in total (A-D), 3 options with fully regulation uniforms: (A Galicia, B Romana, D Majorcans in Catalonia). The latter a side show really.

The pre-war regiments in the Army of Galicia at the Battle of Medina del Rio Seco were: – figures in brackets are the battalions/companies:
-Zaragossa (1802 uniform: 6 coys – probably fusiliers, not clear over grenadiers) 700
-Hibernia (Irish regt 2nd+3rd, so 8 coys of fusiliers) 1200
-Majorca (6 coys of fusiliers) 1000
-Rey (2nd+3rd so 8 coys of fusiliers) 700
-Principe (8 coys of fusiliers) 1400
-Toledo (10 coys of fusiliers) 1600
-Aragon (6 coys of fusiliers) 1068
-Navara (10 coys of fusiliers) 1579 (not at battle)
-Sevilla(10 coys of fusiliers) 1577 (not at battle
-Naples (Uniform like Irish: 10 coys of fusiliers) 1960 (not at battle)
-Vol de Navarra (Light) (4 coys) 754
-Vol Gerona (Light: 50%) 400
-Vol Barbastro (Light 50%, 1802 uniform) 550
-2nd Vol Catalonia (Light 50%) 400

Lots of militia – who wore brown jackets, white breeches, red lapels and facings – not the white jackets one usually sees.

United grenadiers in Vanguard Division: 2 batts of 800 total (400 each) with 8 coys, (so 2 batts of 4 coys at 400 each) with the 2 grenadier coys from each of following: Zaragossa, Mallorca, Aragon, Vols de la Corona.

United grenadiers in 4th Division: 2 batts with 10 coys total 1,100 (so 5 coys each, 550 per batt?) with the 2 grenadier coys from each of following: Principe, Toledo, Sevilla, Navarra, Naples.

Source: Arteche's 1875 Guerra de la Independencia, Vol 2, Appendix + Appendix B to 2008 edition.

When the Romana Division was in action at the Battle of Espinosa (November 1808) they do not appear to have detached their grenadiers and the line up when they got back from Denmark was:
-Zamora 3 batts 54 offs 1757 men
-Princesa 3 batts 62 offs 1953 men
- 1st Catalonia (light 1802 uniform) 1 batt 44 offs 1066 men
– 1st Barcelona (light: 1805 uniform with shakos, plume on right side 1 batt 39 offs 1205 men.

Source Arteche Vol 3 Appendix 10.

Hope this helps you choose your regiments.
Choose the ones with the facing colours you like!

Best wishes

Massive thanks for that – really helpful

And Andy – neat colour