HMS Exeter | 13 Nov 2014 11:07 a.m. PST |
For those planning to attend Historicon 2015, be advised, the Homewood and the Hampton appear to be already full. That just leaves the Hilton within "walking" distance. |
kallman | 13 Nov 2014 1:35 p.m. PST |
Yes, but the convention is going to die, die! I tell you! (And ducks for cover) |
Stepman3 | 13 Nov 2014 2:30 p.m. PST |
I hope at least in that venue… |
nazrat | 13 Nov 2014 3:05 p.m. PST |
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Disco Joe | 13 Nov 2014 4:12 p.m. PST |
Yes no matter what it will push through in that venue. |
Streitax | 13 Nov 2014 5:15 p.m. PST |
I have my rooms now, thanks for the reminder. I gladly drive from Michigan to Fredericksburg and think the venue is terrific. You couldn't pay me to go back to the Host. And I paid for a membership so I can do my part to keep it there. |
TheWarStoreSweetie | 13 Nov 2014 8:49 p.m. PST |
I made my reservations at the Hilton Garden Inn. They have rooms available. The Homewood Suites is booked. The Hampton still has rooms available according to their site. |
rorrim | 14 Nov 2014 4:12 a.m. PST |
FWIW, I stayed at the Fredericksburg Hospitality House last year. It's at the end of the road close to the Interstate and it's definitely a drive to the convention. I ended up getting infested by bedbugs. My legs were covered in bites and I had to have my vehicle and home fumigated for them since they decided to come home with me in my luggage. Never again will I stay there, and I am passing on the warning to others. The Host may be bad, but I've never had a bedbug problem there ;) |
Double G | 14 Nov 2014 6:22 a.m. PST |
Wow, sorry to hear about that. As an FYI for future trips; when you get to your room, turn every light on. Grab the mattress and lift it up; if you see orange specs that look like pepper grains, you've got bed bugs. They are under the mattress and when they sense body heat, ie, someone sleeping, that's when they come out. Also, never, as in ever, put your luggage on the floor, always use the metal luggage stand hotels provide. And if you can, keep your clothes in the suitcase, don't put them in the drawers. Again, sorry for you trouble, bedbugs are a nightmare to get rid of……….. |
kallman | 14 Nov 2014 6:54 a.m. PST |
In case some failed to note my sarcasm and/or sardonic humor I think the Fredricksburg venue is fabulous and long may it remain. I think the fact that all three of the main close by hotels sell out early is a pretty good indicator that the current venue has a long life ahead of it. |
WaltOHara | 14 Nov 2014 8:11 a.m. PST |
Bedbugs??!! Ewwwwwwwwwww Thanks, man! Makes a note. |
HMS Exeter | 14 Nov 2014 8:21 a.m. PST |
I had stayed at the Homewood in 2012 and 2013, but got shut out this year. I ended up in the Hospitality and found it actually pretty good. The room was on par with the Host, but it had a microwave and a fridge. It was just over a mile's drive to the con, but since it didn't get above the mid 80's it wasn't a real problem. And no critters. I always check any room I am given for "critters" before I pack in. Just to be safe I keep everything in sealed plastic containers or zip lock bags. I have been lucky not to ever get an infested room. I was uneasy once when I found red spots on a wall in a room at the Congress/Passport, but on closer examination it turned out it was only tomato sauce. Them danged bedbugs are getting to be a real headache. I was hoping by now that somebody would have broken ground for a 4th, 5th and 6th hotel around the F'burg site. There's certainly room enough. |
47Ronin | 14 Nov 2014 8:46 a.m. PST |
Disco Joe, FYI, in case you didn't get the memo, Historicon attendance was down another 10% this year. (Don't blame me; I was there.) Nor should anyone presume that I want the convention to move back to the Host, especially after the water system failed last Sunday. Historicon may "push through" (as you say) in its current location, but at far lower numbers than before. |
historygamer | 14 Nov 2014 10:29 a.m. PST |
Yes, I heard the same thing from people in the know. I too would not advocate a return to the Host. Hcon is simple one of three cons HMGS puts on now, roughly equal to CW numbers. If it helps out a different population of attendees then that's great – though attendance does appear to be slipping. A quick review of online comments about the Ike in Gettysburg would cause anyone to run from that place – even worse than in the past. The Host is litterally falling apart. So, what's next? I would suggest the attendance number to shoot for is around 2,000, and we obviously don't need the same floor space anymore with less dealers and less attendees – which should also be translating to less games put on. Letting unrestricted games register makes no sense with falling or flat numbers. In short, HMGS could probably go with a smaller facility, hopefully nicer than the Host. |
Double G | 14 Nov 2014 1:31 p.m. PST |
Here we go again. The FCC is just that, a convention center, ie, it's set up for conventions, which is what Historicon is, a convention. They did a lot to cut down on the noise issues in the gaming area and offer better food this past year, so kudos to them, they seem to want to work with us, which is all you can ask. I stay at the Hampton, it's neat, clean, quiet, WIFI works and they have a decent breakfast. There are numerous, actually beyond numerous restaurant choices in the area, all with little or no wait. It has introduced a lot of new attendees to the convention, I see a lot of new faces there as well as familiar old ones from CW and FI. I hope Historicon stays there for a long, long time. |
historygamer | 14 Nov 2014 2:52 p.m. PST |
I'm okay with it staying there, I just won't be attending. Might be good for you and the dealers if you are getting new faces, nothing wrong with that. Hcon just isn't the "mother of all wargaming conventions" anymore as it has about the same number of attendees now as CW. I suspect that is where HMGS cons are today, so not saying that is bad, or screaming to move it. Just is. If it helps out the southern guys, that's great. However, if it loses another 10% it might be forced to move for those reasons. I have no idea where it would or should go. I would not prefer any of our future cons not go to large tin building convention facilities. |
Double G | 14 Nov 2014 3:34 p.m. PST |
It's a great facility in a terrific location. I had the most new customers show up this past year than any of the previous years, I did my part to get new faces through the door. The majority of them were happy with the event and said they would return, I need to keep pushing to get new people through the doors. |
TheKing30 | 14 Nov 2014 4:42 p.m. PST |
A 10% drop is a large number. Maybe if the con stays put there long enough it'll pick up steam? I personally doubt it but who knows? Only time will tell. |
HMS Exeter | 15 Nov 2014 12:46 p.m. PST |
This thread was started as an effort to alert those who wanted rooms in the adjacent hotels that it was time for them to get off their collective buns and register. That said I knew it would digress into a praise/bury the site debate. I have been trying assiduously since July to try to register in the Homewood. I kept getting "not yet" from the staff. On Friday I tried again and got "too late." The summer con has one big issue that is not such a big one for the others. And that issue is HEAT! We have been fortunate in Fredericksburg so far. The first year it was hellacious. 2013 was overcast and not so bad. This year it was in the 80s. Sooner or later we're gonna get back to back hellspawn years and the relative "adjacency" of the Hilton and the Hampton are going to get called into question. Everybody is gonna want the Homewood and when we can't wedge 1800 people into 124 rooms, its gonna get cranky. There are a lot of issues with F'burg. Many are minor and soluble. The noise, the bathrooms and the lighting in some of the meeting rooms can all be overcome. Some are beyond our control, but still manageable with some adjusting. I95 should be renamed the Kaiser Soze Memorial Highway. I found my own solution to it. You just stop believing Mapquest. It told me my drive should be 100 minutes. I figured on 200 minutes and budgeted my time accordingly. When it took me 220 minutes I was able to say what the heck, I only went over 20 minutes. Big deal! If I'd been figuring on 100 minutes I'd have ended up chewing through my steering wheel along about Dumphries. But there is one big problem lurking out on the horizon we can't fix. Let's assume F'burg teethes out its' problems and takes off. The Host has 319 rooms plus or minus what it has out of service at any given time. With the pretty numerous nearby hotels it is well able to accommodate a 1600ish con in cool weather. F'burg has 390 rooms "adjacent." The next nearest hotel is over a mile away. If H'Con manages to grow to grow past 2000, or 2500 or 3000, the existing available lodging could get to be a damned inconvenient glass ceiling. As an indication if the strain, when have you ever heard of a CW or FI getting close to a room sellout 9 months in advance? I sure do hope somebody down there gets off their collective assets soon and breaks ground on some more hotels on the other side of the convention center before we end up having 100 people showing up in rented RVs, emptying their chemical johns in the storm drains ala cousin Eddie. These con's can get pretty stanky as it is. |
historygamer | 16 Nov 2014 7:19 a.m. PST |
" Let's assume F'burg teethes out its' problems and takes off…." After three years there, and three consecutive drops in attendance, is this really likely? Do you really think the facility problems are keeping people away, or the location/traffic? It is what it is, but at some point if attendance keeps declining, the con will either die or move – goodness knows where though. I'm not advocating for a return to the Host at this point. I hope attendance stabilizes, but the hotel issue is a good point. Sold out 7 months in advance with a con that isn't that big anymore is not a good thing. |
Blutarski | 16 Nov 2014 1:39 p.m. PST |
….. I'm from MA and have been attending HMGS cons for a long time. HMGS runs three EC conventions per year. All three used to be located in PS. I have no problem whatsoever with one of these cons now being sited south of Mordor (Washington, DC) for the convenience of our Confederate brothers. That having been said, however, a look at a population map will show that a preponderance of the Eastern USA population lies north of DC. The relocation of HCon from Lancaster to Fredericksburg more or less doubled the driving time of the NY/CT/NE wargaming contingent, from 5-6 hours to 10-11 hours. A lot of these gamers have IMO decided it is just not worth attending for that reason. B |
Bowman | 17 Nov 2014 4:16 a.m. PST |
This thread was started as an effort to alert those who wanted rooms in the adjacent hotels that it was time for them to get off their collective buns and register. That said I knew it would digress into a praise/bury the site debate. The two issues are related, as Historygamer correctly points out, just below your post. |
TheKing30 | 17 Nov 2014 10:59 a.m. PST |
@Blutarski – you hit the nail right on the head. It's not that anyone doesn't like VA, the drive and traffic are too much to justify. If HCon is going to stay in FB, there needs to be more local support. |
historygamer | 17 Nov 2014 12:13 p.m. PST |
I'm also not aware of any of the previous cons moving and then losing attendance three years in a row (VFCC managed to do it two years in a row). Again, I have no solution as to a "better place" to go. :-( Double G – you must recognize your own bias in this discussion. You could have one customor who buys skads of stuff from you and it would be a good con for you. Nothing wrong with that but that doesn't make the con an overall success – just one for Double G. :-) I'm not trying to bury Hcon at the FCC as I have no good solution where else it should be. Frankly after this past weekend at FI I'd like to see either CW or FI move so all our eggs aren't in the Host basket. Again, I have no idea where that other place should be, especially given the horrific recent reviews of the Ike I just read. HMGS is in something of a pickle. :-( Not good for any of us. |
kayjay | 17 Nov 2014 1:01 p.m. PST |
"After three years there, and three consecutive drops in attendance, is this really likely" Sorry this is a incorrect statement. Attendance increased from 2012 to 2013. It decreased from 2013 to 2014 in spite of the better weather, better traffic on 95, carpet and better chairs. HCON is the largest of the 3 by far, in 2014 HCON had 700 more attendees then CW. Kevin Kelley |
49mountain | 17 Nov 2014 1:10 p.m. PST |
Fredericksburg VA is OK. Washington D.C. Baltimore MD I 95 corridor is better all around with facilities, hotels, convenient airports, etc. I hate the Host in Lancaster PA. The sooner one or all the cons move out of that place the better. Just my opinion. |
jpipes | 17 Nov 2014 1:32 p.m. PST |
People drive to the convention. Is it that hard to get a hotel room not 10 feet from the door and drive to the show each morning? All three years at Fburg I have stayed off site in a more luxury oriented hotel for less than the convention price at the places next door and I don't reserve a room until a week or two before the show. It's not hard to find a good room in the area if you can handle driving and parking. And while on the subject, I've been to every HMGS show for the past 8 years. I used to drive 18-20 hours to attend the shows. I recently relocated and now my drive to Hcon is 3 hours. I never complained before when my drive was literally 1000 miles. Be nice to see some of the folks north of DC grow a pair and deal with the driving like adults and either show up or not. The bitching about having to drive an extra 2 hours is really pathetic when folks that gladly drive 18 hours don't say a peep about the trouble. I'm new to the area, is it just a northeastern thing for people to whine and bitch about stuff so much?? |
historygamer | 17 Nov 2014 3:13 p.m. PST |
Kevin, I stand corrected. Kind of. Attendance dropped in the two years at VFCC (10% each year), dropped the first year at FCC (another 10%), rose slightly last year (10%), but dropped again this year (10%?). Not anything to crow about. I am curious though how you declare Hcon bigger than CW by 700? Was CW down that much? I understand there was a discount ticket to get into HCON this year, but that did not really result in sales or participation. Heard that from some staff members. jpipes – it's not the mileage, it is the traffic. Perhaps doing 78 miles in three hours sounds reasonable to you, but not to me, and apparently many others. My weekends are supposed to be a break from stress, not more of it. The fact the hotels are already full (some with bugs) does not sound good either. I'm okay with the two at the Host. Let the southern guys enjoy Hcon. But I sure hope we have a place waiting in the wings. |
TheKing30 | 17 Nov 2014 3:13 p.m. PST |
And while on the subject, I've been to every HMGS show for the past 8 years. I used to drive 18-20 hours to attend the shows. I recently relocated and now my drive to Hcon is 3 hours. I never complained before when my drive was literally 1000 miles. Be nice to see some of the folks north of DC grow a pair and deal with the driving like adults and either show up or not. The bitching about having to drive an extra 2 hours is really pathetic when folks that gladly drive 18 hours don't say a peep about the trouble. This is all relative. Here is my point of view (and strictly my point of view)…. Fall In and Cold Wars are a few hours from me. If I go to HCon in FB, it's almost double the time. It's simply not worth the time and trouble for me. There is nothing at HCon that makes me say, "Wow, I gotta get there". Either way, HCon was moved. If it's the right move, then HCon will succeed. If wasn't the right move, the numbers will continue to decline. YMMV |
Bowman | 17 Nov 2014 4:06 p.m. PST |
Sorry this is a incorrect statement. Attendance increased from 2012 to 2013. It decreased from 2013 to 2014 in spite of the better weather, better traffic on 95, carpet and better chairs. Kevin, where is this information made available? |
Double G | 17 Nov 2014 4:32 p.m. PST |
Historygamer; color me confused with your comments. I am a full time dealer, my job is to sell product. Doesn't matter if I get 1,000 people who spend 10.00 each, 10 people who spend 1,000.00 each or 1 person who drops 10 grand. At this past Fall In, I had one customer who accounted for half of my gross sales. Doesn't matter how it happens as long as it happens. I don't worry about how many people show up, I worry about how much money I make. That's what dealers worry about last time I checked. I also agree with Jason's comments; I don't get the comments about wanting to stay ten feet from the front door either; there is one hotel within walking distance (well three if you are in shape), you have to drive to get there from all the rest, what difference does it make if your drive is one minute, five minutes or fifteen minutes? Sorry, that concern makes zero sense to me. At Cold Wars and Fall In, the Host is within walking distance, all the rest require some sort of drive. And as far as the horrific traffic on 95; I found a way around it, it was as painless as can be. If you want to attend an event, you'll go; if don't want to go, you find excuses left, right and center to justify your decision. |
historygamer | 17 Nov 2014 4:45 p.m. PST |
Double G: Sorry I wasn't clear. My point was, sales in the dealer area – especially for one dealer – do not equate to a successful convention – as measured by attendance. Does that make more sense? I usually stay at the stinky Host out of convenience. Less running around. It is nice to stay on site or close, especially if you are putting on games. Imagine having to drag all your stuff in and out every day. Glad you found a way around the traffic. I'm coming from the Baltimore area, so my options are limited to I-95 (three hour drive), or 301 (2.5). Not much difference for a 78 mile drive. In regards to attendance and excuses, I have noticed in my crew that once they stop going it seems less likely they start up again. Funny how quickly people find things to fill their time. For me, the horrific drive on Friday/Saturday is not worth it. Last time it took over five hours round trip, I paid $25 USD to get in and shop. I should have stayed home, spent the money on line, and relaxed. My choices, I admit. Maybe for me now two cons a year is enough. Hope that clarifies things. :-) |
Blutarski | 17 Nov 2014 5:08 p.m. PST |
Double G – Believe me: it is really, really, really nice to stay right at the hotel convention site when you are a 60+ year old guy humping fifty or a hundred pounds of stuff back and forth all weekend to run games. It's not the drive time, it's the endless looking for a parking spot in the same county as the convention, and the endless loading and unloading. Congrats on finding an alternative to Rte 95, because no one in his right mind should ever venture forth on that interstate highway of horrors to get anywhere. We also take a "painless alternate route" down from MA; that is the route that is 11-12 hours to Fburg. B |
Blutarski | 17 Nov 2014 5:26 p.m. PST |
jpipes – There are plenty of us folks up in the northeast with perfectly good pairs indeed, thank you very much. We have been loyal attendees of HMGS conventions since the mid-70s. In the past five years, apart from doing the HMGS cons, my buddy and I have also driven from MA to "Southern Front" in Raleigh NC twice and to "Guns of August" in Williamsburg VA twice. As to your comment about "an extra 2 hours", it's more like an extra 5-6 hours each way for us New Englanders (i.e. twice the drive time). Congrats on driving 18-20 hours to get to Lancaster; you definitely win the Captain Ironpants award. Just try to understand that not everyone in this hobby (a) possesses your gluteal stamina, and (b) obtains the same result when they perform their personal hobby enjoyment calculus. It's just not worth it to some people to spend 20-24 hours out of a rare hobby weekend sitting in a car. That's a value judgment that they are totally entitled to make and a consequence of the HCon move south that HMGS must live with. B |
Double G | 17 Nov 2014 6:37 p.m. PST |
B, Understood on wanting to stay on site, especially if you are running games. Actually, the game masters are the ones who make the conventions go; if it wasn't for them running games, who's going to show up. The painless route does add a bit more time to the trip for us down from MA, but I'll sacrifice an extra hour or so vs having a stroke in Baltimore trying to crawl down 95 in July…………..hope to see you at Historicon……….. |
Double G | 17 Nov 2014 6:44 p.m. PST |
What makes for a successful convention? A combination of things; attendees showing up and having a good time and dealers showing up and making money, both happening makes for a successful convention, not to mention HMGS coming out of it all in the positive as far as cash flow. If HMGS has to dip into it's reserve to pay a portion of the convention, then that is not a good result and as a non profit organization, this would not be a formula for long term success. |
Blutarski | 17 Nov 2014 8:34 p.m. PST |
Double G – It's a VERY small world indeed. I live in Braintree, about 10 miles from your Westwood shop. What are your hours? I will drop by to say hello. B |
Double G | 18 Nov 2014 6:07 a.m. PST |
B, That's awesome, you can reach me at gguerriero@msn.com or by phone at 617-462-5431. Do you attend our local con here Havoc? |
kayjay | 18 Nov 2014 11:44 a.m. PST |
For the OP I just talked to the sales manager at the Hampton Suites – for HCON weekend they have available 11 Kings and 8 Doubles at the HMGS rate. The number at the Hampton is (540)786-5530. If you are trying to get rooms thru a consolidator then you will not be successful. |
kayjay | 18 Nov 2014 11:55 a.m. PST |
Sorry this is a incorrect statement. Attendance increased from 2012 to 2013. It decreased from 2013 to 2014 in spite of the better weather, better traffic on 95, carpet and better chairs. no idea how to embed quotes Kevin, where is this information made available? The same place HistoryGamer got his data? I assume you are referring to numbers and not my observations on the weather traffic and noise. 2012 and 2013 numbers were posted in the YAHOO forums back during the lead up to the election back in April. 2014 can be easily calculate by dividing the revenue by the cost and compare it to 2013. |
historygamer | 18 Nov 2014 6:20 p.m. PST |
Okay Kevin, we believe, you. Attendance at Hcon dropped once again, even with better chairs, carpeting and less traffic (not sure I believe that one). So now what? |
Long Valley Gamer | 18 Nov 2014 9:11 p.m. PST |
I live in NJ and went once to Hist in Fred due to my vacation being nearby. Have not attended the others in Fred due to the distance. Frankly I don't care about missing one con a year. I just hope the board has enough sense not to move the other 2 cons further south at a future date. |
TheKing30 | 21 Nov 2014 8:25 p.m. PST |
LVG – I stopped frequenting HCon once it moved to FB. You might want to look at "The Weekend". Normally around the third week in June. It's a different type of convention – focused on gaming – with no vendors (oh well, can't have everything). Maybe Otto will chime in with more details. |
civildisobedience | 22 Nov 2014 6:40 p.m. PST |
Not to get into this pointless debate again, but let's just be clear on facts. 1. The hotels sell out because there is NOTHING else nearby, unlike the Host, which is surrounded by other hotels. There are fewer nearby rooms in Fburg not more. The other hotels in the area are extremely inconvenient, usually requiring a ride on the I-95 parking lot. I was off site the first year and on-site the last two. If I miss getting a reservation at one of the three hotels, I simply will not go, where as in Lancaster I consider it a minor nuisance. 2. The venue is just fine (some pluses, some minuses compared to the Host). It doesn't seem to me that there is more space than at the Host, which sort of undermines the original rationale for the move. 3. Attendance has been consistently lower every year the event has been in Fredericksburg, despite the fact that the economy is, if anything, better now than it was four conventions ago in PA. The venue is perfectly adequate, and there are people who prefer the convention in Fburg. However, numbers don't lie, and it is equally clear that MORE people do not like the new location. A very large number of people who had previously attended every year (or most years) clearly have abandoned the convention, and it struggles to maintain a level of attendance FAR below the last event at the Host (though the rationale for moving was a bunch of "next level" nonsense about growth). 4. To be clear, I actually don't mind the new location as much as I thought I would. But that doesn't mean I can't make a reasonable and honest assessment. We left the Host because the next levelers were talking about attendance in excess of the 4,000 I believe we hit at the Host. We're not far above half that now. That is a FAIL (maybe an EPIC FAIL). It doesn't matter that some people like it better; the mathematics say that more people do not. Moving a convention is not about pleasing a select group, but appealing to the largest number of involved parties. An investment is not a success because you put up $1,000 USD and only lost half. Similarly, the apparent permanent downsizing of Historicon seems permanent after five non-Host locations. So, bottom line, I as an individual am less bothered by the new location that I thought I would be. But I can still recognize the stink of failure on the whole move. Numbers don't lie. |
Tumbleweed | 22 Nov 2014 6:52 p.m. PST |
The "stink of failure?" So where would you like it to be held? The Jacob Javits Center in Hell's Kitchen? link Please provide an alternative venue. |
historygamer | 22 Nov 2014 8:26 p.m. PST |
Well, if you are just looking at overall attendance, the Host drew many more, and VFCC would be next – if you are just looking at attendance numbers. I'm not as big a fan of the Host as I used to be. VFCC lost space to the casino. But, given the current attendance, either one might be fine to host the present numbers – again, if you are just looking at numbers. I'd be more comfortable with the FCC being for the southern guys if its costs were the same at the Host, but given the numbers it draws, and spending over twice as much for only roughly the same numbers as CW does make one pause. If FCC continues its downward spiral – the logical assumption would be even less dealers will go making the entire thing fiscally untenable. And the $64 USDk question still is, so where next? |
Blutarski | 23 Nov 2014 6:56 a.m. PST |
I would suggest a close look at Harrisburg PA. [ 1 ] It has multiple convention center facilities. [ 2 ] Room prices are quite reasonable. [ 3 ] It is served by major highways from all points of the compass [ 4 ] It is centrally located to attract attendees from New England, the South, and up to Cleveland & Buffalo. [ 5 ] People can avoid the horrendous traffic nightmares of NYC, North Jersey, greater DC, Baltimore. FWIW / B |
Bowman | 23 Nov 2014 7:35 a.m. PST |
The "stink of failure?"So where would you like it to be held? The Jacob Javits Center in Hell's Kitchen? I respectfully submit that you are missing civildisobedience's point. The "stink of failure" alludes to the efforts of the "next levellers". Do you not remember the guys with the "Move Historicon Now!" buttons? The last year at the Host, during the depths of the recession, had the highest number of attendees. But we had to leave that "dump" to take the Con to the next level. All of which produced lower and lower attendence numbers. I think civildisobedience's description is apt. Conversely, both CW and FI are growing. As an aside, the Fredericksburg Tourism Board describes Historicon as having 4,500 attendees. |
TheKing30 | 23 Nov 2014 7:51 a.m. PST |
All of which produced lower and lower attendance numbers. I think the saddest part of this whole story is the dealers are the ones getting hurt the most. Hopefully someone takes notice and acts on this before it's too late. C'est la vie. |
Double G | 23 Nov 2014 9:55 a.m. PST |
Civildisobedience makes a lot of good, sound, valid points. I also like the new venue, the traffic is a barrier for those coming from the Northeast in July, specifically the New England states and it's much further away for the New York/New Jersey attendees. As I found out, there are ways around it. And he's right about the hotels; if you dont' get a room in one of the three basically on site, you're SOL as you can either go to the Hospitality House and I think one other hotel on the main road, or else you have to go an exit or two up or down 95 for the next block of hotels. We're in this mess because of the Baltimore move; luckily, the VFCC was there as a fall back option for two years. If the numbers continue to drop and the cost exceeds the benefit, then yet another move will have to be considered, which is too bad as the FCC really is a great spot IMO for a number of reasons. I'm with HG and I say try the VFCC again; true that they lost the top floor convention area, but as he said, if the convention has bled out attendees, that site should be big enough for the dealers and games. Oh and the flea market too, wouldn't want to forget them. |