"British flight crew help General Franco at start of SCW" Topic

Apparently, on the morning of 11 July 1936 Major Hugh Pollard, and Cecil Bebb left Croydon Airport in South London for the Canary Islands in a de Havilland Dragon Rapide aircraft, where they picked up General Francisco Franco, taking him to Spanish Morocco and thereby helping to trigger the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War.

Croydon was the main airport for London before it was replaced by Northolt Aerodrome and London Heathrow Airport.

This little gem could be factored into a AVBCW scenario – perhaps the location for bringing Prince Albert back to London for, perhaps, his own Kingship to begin…just thinking out loud.

link

Scroll down the page for British Friends of Franco

Add to the above the Airport scenario from Charles Stewart Grant's Scenarios for Wargamers book and hey presto! Let battle commence.

My idea is that non-Albertine elements acting on secret information attack the airfield as the Prince arrives by aircraft in a capture or assassination attempt. Sounds good to me.

Could you do a scenario where he 'accidentally' fell out of the plane somewhere between the Canary Islands and Morocco?

The original Nationalist leader, General Sanjurjo, was killed in an air crash. He hired a plane to fly him into Madrid, where it was assumed the coup would be in charge when he landed. He wanted all of his dress uniforms aboard so he could take charge in style. The pilot argued that there was too much baggage. Sanjurjo insisted. The plane crashed shortly after takeoff, killing pilot and passenger. With his death and the arrest of other top Nationalists, Franco moved into the driver's seat.

Since the coup failed badly in Madrid, had they landed there the general would have been a prisoner of the Republicans.

You know I had completely forgotten that! There are times when just one more air crash could have been useful!

and in that way saving people from Spain to become yet another entire population under the foot of a terroristic Comintern dependance of Moscow.

I'm sure all the people Franco murdered were super happy to be "saved." to that.

While Italwars' spouts his usual fascist fanboy dribblings, the outcome of the SCW may in the long term have indirectly benefitted Europe. A Republican Spain would probably have been overrun by the Nazis in 1940/41 and Gibraltar along with it. Without Gibraltar, the Med, North Africa, Suez and probably the entire Second World War would have been lost in 1941.

Jemina i have the impression that, with the personal agression you made on me, instead of commenting in civilised manner on the topic..the only comunist/fascist behaviour is entitled totally to you..A Repubblican (Red) Spain for what they show in their zone with massacres of Catholic intellectuals, Anarchists, Trozkist, Nuns, Priest and Common People not fascinated by Moscow Diktas..would have probably been isolated and then invaded by West democratic nation's armies like GB ann then USA..in order to stop a communist virus also in the South …but i can imagine that your political agenda cannot include such idea…

Nice revisionist spin on a legitimate government (not Communist) being overthrown by a right wing military coup in league with the Fascist Italians and Nazi Germany.

There would have been no 'Red Menace' in Spain but for the opportunity Franco and his gang created for them.

" Legimitate Government" of which roots are coup from Primo de Rivera subsequent golpe backed also by military eufemistically called called "pacto de San sebastian" and , to let know who lead the game, assassination by the "legal government" police of Calvo Sotelo…so evident that a "revisionism" attitude..as you call it..is totally unecessary

it would be very interesting the moment when huge historical archives will be open on that delicate debate..i'm thinking to the one of the most important and documented with still untouched primary sources..the Vatican City one

being overthrown by a right wing military coup in league with the Fascist Italians "
you should read the book from David Coverdale (certainly not a Fascist writer) on the role and importance …better on the false myth..of Italiy in the SCW as to label his participation as "in league with"..
the Republic Gov.t in over Spain, with the exception and only up a certain extent by the bankrupt Front Populaire in france, was seen at the time..and untill recent revisionism..as a virus to stamp…as West Allies, among them GB, tried to do when they fought in 1919 against Bolscevic Russia….so i should have some doubts in choosing who were the "good boys" at the beginning of SCW.

Well the Vatican wasn't entirely neutral was it? Female suffrage and divorce put them off a bit and the fact they had tied their political cart to the monarchy and then the fascists may give their records a bit of a slant.

Dunno what David Coverdale's politics are – Whitesnake are okay though but I preferred him in Deep Purple.

John Coverdale on the other hand is a historian with a penchant for Roman Catholic heroes and Opus Dei, so no surprise about his nuanced version of events given the Vatican's allegiances at this time.

Gwydion i was referring to archive material still untouched that was collected and stored in Vatican Library..not the support given by the Church to one of the antagonists…
And about Coverdale..i rember that on his essay , world wide acclaimed and studied in Universities, which firts put light on Italian aid to Franco insurrection..he demonstrated thanks to primary sources that Mussolini did'nt want at all, except maybe the poorly attractive and hipotetical possibility of obtaining a naval base in the Balearic Islands.., to be dragged in the Spanish War..Furthemore, Franco and his Generals, thanks also to a pathological ego beloging to the personality of the later Caudillo de Espana, did'nt want at all foreign interference..after the Battle of Carretera de Francia..the same Franco acclaimed the reverse of Italian troops suffered at the hands of Repubblicans..For what i perceived reading my sources the Italian (unwillingly and unprepared) and German interventions in Spain were precipitated by the mass aid asked, at first, and immediatly allocated to the Republic by Soviet Union..thanks to the Spanish Gvt in Madrid..already heavily indoctrinated, expert on the strategy and more than happy to fulfill his role to facilitate the export of Bolshevic Revolution (and all his horror) to the free Europe.

"A Repubblican (Red) Spain for what they show in their zone with massacres of Catholic intellectuals, Anarchists, Trozkist, Nuns, Priest and Common People not fascinated by Moscow Diktas"

Where as of course the Nationalists and their supporters loved their pet kittens and took up crochet, while driving around dispensing food to the starving masses.

Its not just the Civil War – its the period between 1939 and 1975 when Senior Bahamonde held sway as Caudillo along with the concentration camps, forced labour and executions.

However you are right about the Italians the Nationalists found that Mussolini's military contribution was worse than useless!

Italwars,I know you were referring to unreleased archives – so neither of us can know what they say – but it doesn't take a genius to guess they aren't going to be pro Republican.

As for Coverdale – think I prefer David to John.

As for who started what – the 'Nationalists' were the ones who rebelled and precipitated the deluge – so if anyone caused a Soviet threat to Spain it was Franco.

As for a 'Free' Europe, Spain had to wait until the mid 70s to be free of fascism.

(And don't bother with the 'she'd have had to wait longer if the Rebublicans had won line – she would have been a democratic state if Franco and the fascists hadn't destroyed democracy in the first place.)

Well the Vatican wasn't entirely neutral was it?

Hardly, there again the Catholic Church had been instrumental in helping the State (in many incarnations) hold back the populace and further the cause of the land owners (and its self) for hundreds of years, so no change there then – as they say!

Oh and I forgot, there were another 22 air crashes that would have been useful – all of them involving Junkers Ju52s flying between North Africa and Seville!

:^)

BY the way, should a pilot ever mention safety issues about a flight you are about to embark on, don't argue.

Sanjurjo did, a rapper (whose handle I forget) did and John Kennedy Jr.'s wife did. All proved the pilot's fears to be true.

"Oh and I forgot, there were another 22 air crashes that would have been useful – all of them involving Junkers Ju52s flying between North Africa and Seville!"

But, in fact, those Junkers came trough…and once their exoticly clad bearded passengers disembraked in Sevilla…also if i was'nt there..i'm sure that some other guys were so amazed to stop singing "Ay Carmela"

News flash!
Dateline: Madrid, Spain.
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is _still dead_!
More details as they happen.

For God's sake break it to Italwars gently! He's only just getting over Mussolini.

Speaking of downed planes, is Glenn Miller still missing?