Risaldar Singh | 12 Nov 2014 3:52 a.m. PST |
The Swedish "Friends of the Vasa Museum" have rebuilt a 24 pdr naval gun and test fired it on a replica of a ship of the line's side. The resulting smoke is impressive and the shrapnel effect of the wood splinters flying into the interior of the ship is pretty horrendous… link YouTube link |
79thPA | 12 Nov 2014 5:02 a.m. PST |
Yeah, that could hurt. Does the text say how thick the "ship" is? |
olicana | 12 Nov 2014 5:13 a.m. PST |
The second camera angle in real time showing the ball going through the 'ship's side' and the immediate effect of the splinters on the metal sheet behind says it all – those splinters are deadly. The third slow motion shot doesn't tell you that much because there is no real time shot to go with it. Great experiment though – best regards to all those involved with its staging. 79th, I'm not sure it would matter at that range. thicker sides would just mean more splinters. Even carronades, at that range (pisol / musket shot), could penetrate the side of any ship afloat. As you probably know, much experiment went into preventing the effect of splinters, including webbing and even cork lining (Forte) to little effect. Not until iron clads were ships cannon proofed against short ranged firing by big guns – and let's face it, on land (not at sea) that is a heavy siege gun. |
KTravlos | 12 Nov 2014 5:43 a.m. PST |
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Doms Decals | 12 Nov 2014 6:51 a.m. PST |
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Doms Decals | 12 Nov 2014 7:08 a.m. PST |
Does the text say how thick the "ship" is?
Looking at the cross section, and assuming a diameter of about 5.5" for the shot, it's about 18 inches – 4 inch planking on either side of a 10 inch timber, give or take an inch here or there. |
vonMallard | 12 Nov 2014 7:13 a.m. PST |
adds a whole new meaning to 'shiver me timbers' |
79thPA | 12 Nov 2014 8:00 a.m. PST |
@olicana: Don't try to read something into the question that is not there. |
olicana | 12 Nov 2014 8:05 a.m. PST |
79th, sorry. Blimey mate, I wasn't. Reading back, ouch, I meant nothing by it. Looks like we are both edgy today. Again, my apologies for any unintended slight. |
Streitax | 12 Nov 2014 8:18 a.m. PST |
Iron men, indeed. One could go ignorantly into battle the first time, but to do it more than once, having seen what can happen and with no place to hide, would take iron appendages, at least. |
Redcoat 55 | 12 Nov 2014 8:31 a.m. PST |
Very cool, thank you for sharing. |
79thPA | 12 Nov 2014 8:41 a.m. PST |
olicana, no offense taken, and maybe I misunderstood your response, but all I wanted to know was the thickness of the lumber. I probably shouldn't have posted; wasn't trying to be a butt head. |
79thPA | 12 Nov 2014 8:44 a.m. PST |
Redcoat, yes, very cool. You read about splinters killing and wouding people but, until now, I think most of us have been left to our imaginations because we did not have a visual reference. |
kiltboy | 12 Nov 2014 8:51 a.m. PST |
YouTube link Another demonstration which is a bit more gruesome as there are figure cutouts behind the walls. David |
olicana | 12 Nov 2014 8:54 a.m. PST |
79th, no problem. It's the format, it's difficult to smile on TMP. Best Regards, etc. |
Risaldar Singh | 12 Nov 2014 9:58 a.m. PST |
Yeah, that could hurt. Does the text say how thick the "ship" is? The target was a replica the Vasa's side, so 18". Dom was bang on. |
GarrisonMiniatures | 12 Nov 2014 10:20 a.m. PST |
The 'splinters' idea turns up in a more modern context – when a riveted tank (rather than welded) gets hit, the rivets shear and effectively act like splinters. |
olicana | 12 Nov 2014 10:35 a.m. PST |
As does paint. Crisp, in his biog "Brazen Chariots", tells how the first job of his crew on getting a new Stuart tank was to sand away all of the interior paint work – because it flaked off and showered the crew like a thousand needles when the tank was hit. |
Ligniere | 12 Nov 2014 10:47 a.m. PST |
Good grief! Gruesome indeed! I agree with Streitax – once bitten twice shy |
jowady | 12 Nov 2014 2:55 p.m. PST |
A few years back on one of their "pirate" shows "Mythbusters" claimed that the "myth" of splinters was "busted". I always knew that it was BS (after all, we have ship's Doctor's reports) but boy this is definitely proof. |
StarCruiser | 12 Nov 2014 8:40 p.m. PST |
The Mythbusters didn't use anything as big as a 24 pounder – I believe it was a 12 or 9 pounder from the US Civil War (Old Moses). Good gun, in the field but a wimp compared to the bigger guns used on a ship of war. |
SgtPrylo | 13 Nov 2014 11:10 a.m. PST |
Yeah, the Mythbusters actually 'busted' the myth of deadly splinters based on their tests, which used a Civil War era 6-pounder. I always thought that the problem with their experiment was that cannon – nothing like a 24- or a 32- pounder. God forbid a 64-pounder carronade. |
devsdoc | 13 Nov 2014 12:31 p.m. PST |
We always think of splinters as being small. I do talks on historical surgery. Sometimes Ship-Surgeons, We talk about wooden splinters and most say, "O.K. not nice". Until I show a basket of 2ft plus long splinters they go, "Oh my God!" I add that they spin and do not fly like arrows. It would be nicer to be cut with a sword. To re-move a splinter would be hard to do as the smaller splinters on the big splinter act like barbs and stop a clean removal. One would have to cut out the splinter and hope the surgeon did not leave any wood in the wound. All this is if you got to the Surgeon in the frist place. Be safe Rory P.S. Crews of 1.W.W. tanks wore chain-mail face masks to stop the metal splinters which flew off the inside of the tank when hit. |
StarCruiser | 13 Nov 2014 5:14 p.m. PST |
Yeah – metal spall is nasty stuff too. Still, I often have to laugh when people think they understand history so well and actually know very little. A small caliber cannon can punch holes in a wooden ship but, won't do as much collateral damage (from splinters and smashing other items) as a larger cannon. |
Kevin in Albuquerque | 13 Nov 2014 8:59 p.m. PST |
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