"Board Game Honor Code" Topic
14 Posts
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thatjimguy | 10 Nov 2014 8:11 p.m. PST |
Hey all. I've come up with a written version of a code that most of us live by when playing game of any type. My goal is to make it a standard for good play and good sportsmanship. It is geared towards kids for sure, but I think all can agree on it. I really cant wait to hear feedback from the TMP community. Ideas? A better way to say something? Anything is appreciated. link (and why yes, I'm running a Kickstaret too….go ahead and have a peek around when you are done. :) |
etotheipi | 11 Nov 2014 4:08 a.m. PST |
It is a nice set if moral standards. I'm not particularly sure that in a lot of cases people who engage in the behaviours you are trying to avoid, say exploiting a rule vice playing wise, necessarily recognize it when they are doing it. That said, I am not particularly sure there are well defined standards for those differences. Certainly, there are examples of "good" or "bad" behaviour in those veins for which you could get a 95% concurrence. But I would guess that 2/3-3/4 of the situations where one person would claim a violation, the other would not. And history would back the idea (if not the ratio) up. There are dozens of cases where one side in a conflict did something "innovative" that the other considered "wrong". Given human nature, there is likely an individual bias in perception. If I do something it is innovative; if my opponent surprises me with something innovative, it is exploitative. That is, until I try it in a game later. link For those of you not familiar with the play in the link above, every team in the league now uses it and has for the last three decades. That said, I think having a code such as you proffer, and reading/thinking about it in the times "between" does in fact help in individual to alter their behaviour. Please bow your heads. I am a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess. Amen. |
OSchmidt | 11 Nov 2014 7:31 a.m. PST |
Dear thatjim guy. You realize that having to promulgate a code like this is a terrible indictment of the social skills and manners of gamers: still that it would be necessary at all. But I do not believe you can promulgate such a code. One either acts naturally in a way the code would applaud, or one tries to "game the code." in a hobby about rules, all too often a code is simply another set of rules to be "gamed." Here in miniatures for many people the game is merely an excuse to get together with one's friends and have a good time, have some laughs and yuks, tell jokes, lie, brag, drink beer and wine and eat food and moan about the guv'mint. Somewhere in there is a game. If you're going to lie, cheat, and steal from your friends, you won't be invited to play again. |
(Phil Dutre) | 12 Nov 2014 4:44 a.m. PST |
Such a code could be useful to use in a larger organization, such as a club that meets regularly, with many gaming groups that are distributed over age, interest etc. For tournaments at cons, it might have its use as well. For a private group of gaming buddies, it doesn't make much sense. Either you share the same values as a friend, or you probably won't be friends. One aspect that every gamer should learn though, is that there are several modes of play. At the extremes you have "I want to win at all costs" and "It's only for fun and we're just here to chat". Anecdote: I once took part in a game at a friend's house, where there was an opportunity for a male gamer in the group – who was still single at the time – to make a good impression on two single ladies. Neither of the latter were much interested in games, but wanted to participate for the sake of social activity. Normal people in such a situation understand that such a game is not the right place to display your cunning tactical plans and go cut-throat. Our male gamer didn't understand the notion of "casual play". Needless to say, he didn't score a date afterwards :-) |
ITALWARS | 13 Nov 2014 8:12 a.m. PST |
For me…it's above all to have a very competitive game…followed by good jokes and lampooing toward the looser side…i remenber once we beat an Allied Napoleonic Army lead by two guys (also friends) one of which was of the nationality represented on his toys castings…and, as agreed before, some of his guns, captured during the difficult battle with Quarrie's rules, by my French minis where ..later..melted in a casting pot in my parent's kitchen..as in the Colonne Vendome…..after more than 30 years we still laugh about it… |
McLaddie | 14 Nov 2014 7:58 a.m. PST |
You realize that having to promulgate a code like this is a terrible indictment of the social skills and manners of gamers: still that it would be necessary at all. I think saying it is a 'terrible indictment' might be a bit extreme. If you look at the code as an exercise of skills, just knowing what the code means in practical, game-to-game terms is expecting a lot from anyone--so its not a so much of an indictment if that code is an expectation. It certainly isn't a set of rules. It is an expectation of very finely-honed skills: He or she would have to know what 'honesty' is in game terms. That can vary between groups… He or she would have to show 'an attitude of respect' which involves a whole lot of skills to portray consistently, and again can vary between groups… Knowing the difference between using a rule and exploiting a rule??? There is a boatload of fine distinctions. Again, different groups will have different views of that. And "winning matters, but not that much?" Another fine line that would take some skill to recognize, let alone to walk. All groups have a code of conduct, implicit if not explicit. Its a good thing to have it overt, spoken out loud. |
thatjimguy | 14 Nov 2014 5:01 p.m. PST |
Thanks for the input thus far everyone. I should point out that the code is really going to be aimed at children. Things are more cut and dry with children. Exploiting the rules, I know, can seem arbitrary, but for the most part is pretty easy to spot bad play. I was coaching baseball and there was this kid who could not bat but the coach made him crouch down super far to make the strike zone a joke. Probably legal, but bad form. However, in football, when there is a minute or two left to play and a team is winning by 3 points and they have the ball, the quarterback drop to a knee and runs out the clock. There isn't a concrete way of talking about exploiting a rule, but by putting it in there, it makes us think. Just as many laws are not 100% fool proof, and some grey areas happen, but we still write it down. |
Ottoathome | 16 Nov 2014 4:01 p.m. PST |
McLaddie If the concept of "honesty" has to be explained to you then there's no point in explaining it to you. |
Privateer4hire | 17 Nov 2014 6:22 p.m. PST |
Parents teach that concept to their kids every day. |
McLaddie | 18 Nov 2014 10:06 p.m. PST |
If the concept of "honesty" has to be explained to you then there's no point in explaining it to you. Ottoathome: It isn't the concept, but it's application to new and varied situations that has to be explicit. Honesty isn't one of those universal sets of behavior that every adult should know how to apply in exactly the same way when playing wargames without any explanation regarding its application? What, it doesn't have to be taught or at least explained in a number of instances? What is the 'honest' thing to do with a cocked die? When someone else mis-measures a distance in their favor? [Particularly if you can't tell if they did it purposely or not] What is the difference between good sportsmanship and honesty? How long would the list be if we started writing down all the things that could happen during a game that could/should/would require the exercising of the concept honesty? You and I probably have the same general notion of honesty. It's how we apply that notion that any differences in understanding are discovered. That is one reason why a code such as the one above is useful. It encourages us to make the expected explicit, bringing up each person's understanding so everyone can be on the same page. Parents teach that concept to their kids every day. Are there any teachers present? It is a common teacher experience that any group of children of well-intentioned parents will have concepts of 'honesty' that can vary, not only what that means, but also were and how it applies to school, friends etc. |
OSchmidt | 19 Nov 2014 6:30 a.m. PST |
Dear McLaddie Quod erat demonstrandrum Otto |
McLaddie | 19 Nov 2014 12:27 p.m. PST |
Quod erat demonstrandrum O'Schmidt: Et certum est quod certum. |
etotheipi | 23 Nov 2014 9:50 a.m. PST |
Qui custodiet ipsos custodes? Well, we do. So, while I understand the reservations expressed above, and have some of them myself, I would like to reiterate that the existence of the code is a good prompt to have people think about what they are doing. Metacognition is not automatic. |
thatjimguy | 26 Nov 2014 12:32 a.m. PST |
I want to thank all of you for all your help. It has been a humbling experience finding out through google analytics that so many people from around the world wanted to see what this was all about. The final copy is available for you to download. Also, there will be a nice copy of it in each copy of Alpha Mecha, which is now live on Kickstarter. |
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