"Newbie to AWI, sharing plans and asking for advice" Topic

Dear Gentlemen & Ladies,

Being a historical gamer wannabe in a place not precissely full of such people (not beyond FoW for the moment; that's a start, but a fiddly one), I have decided to take the AWI plunge, both because of its sheer cool factor and its small armies and actions which in turn can allow me to collect small armies for both contenders while not hurting (much) my economy. I have to say that John the OFM's very helpful thread about starting such period (here:http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=253118) was what finally got me in.

So I made an "acquisition plan" to start small armies for the Rebels and for the Redcoats, and want to ask for your opinion. This is it:

Rebels (110 figures, 6 horses, 2 guns):

- 2 boxes of plastic Perry Continental infantry.
- 3 sprues of plastic Perry Continental infantry command.
- 1 sprue of plastic Perry Continental Riflemen
- 1 metal Perry American command in hunting shirts
- 1 metal Perry American cavalry command (light dragoons)
- 1 metal Perry American cavalry troopers (light dragoons)
- 2 metal Perry Continental artillery (1x6 pounder, 1x3 pounder)

These will make for 6 infantry units, 5 in uniforms and 1 in hunting shirts; 1 cavalry unit; and 2 artillery units

Redcoats (122 figures, 6 horses, 2 guns; 12 figures are casualties):

- 2 boxes of plastic Perry British infantry.
- 4 sprues of plastic Perry British infantry command.
- 1 metal Perry British cavalry command (light dragoons)
- 1 metal Perry British cavalry troopers (light dragoons)
- 2 metal Perry British artillery (1x6 pounder, 1x3 pounder)

These will make for 6 infantry units in uniforms; 1 cavalry unit; and 2 artillery units

I have an idea to exchange 1 Continental infantry unit, in red faced green coats, to make for a loyalist unit, for an uniformed British unit painted in Continental uniform colours; as I am still involved in superficial searching, I'd like to know your opinions on such a move. Thank you.

So I'd end with 2 basic, manageable and balanced starting armies, with the British qualitative advantage ofset both by not taking every unit possible to the field and/or the rebels getting the first expansion by the acquisition of 2 or 3 units more (love the look of shirt sleeve order and non uniformed militias too much to let them go so maybe 3 such metal commands and 5 such metal infantry will be ordered from Perry ASAP). Uniforms would follow the advice given by John the OFM (in the link above). 1 each of rebel and redcoat mounted officers will make for the generals.

Regarding rules, as people in my vicinity are used to WFB and such, I've chosen Black Powder, which I already have, and will have its specific "Rebellion" supplement and use its basing system. Unit sizes will be cut in half so standard will be 16 figures per unit. At a 1:25 ratio that would give roughly 400 men "generic" battalions, very much about the size of the actual units which took the field. Such units would make for easy scenarios in 4' by 6' tables, without much scenery (trees, fences, some buiding like a farm or church).

And that is it. It is a start, isn't it? Please give your two cents about it, and let me ask you for something else. I already have a lot of Osprey titles regarding the AWI (on the generic campaign one, on a lot of battles, about commanders and armies) and have ordered (used, not new) the Digby book on uniforms (which although with some flaws still seems to give a lot of information while being cheap; it cost me some 20 € P&P included). I also got here: link which has nice info on uniforms and units, partly based on Lefferts' work. I have the Duffy book on 18th century warfare too, but I'd like to have a reference book with more detail on the whole campaign. May I ask you for guidance in such matter?

Thank you for your attention.

Salut i a reveure!

Hi Salvador,

Your two small armies sound like good opponents for each other.

For what it's worth, I'd give the Americans some militia units. They were present in many, if not most, of the battles.

With that in mind, you might want to consider making your American force a little larger than your British one, but giving the Americans some troops of various effectiveness, like militia or partly trained line.

Personally, I'd consider buying and painting cavalry last, many even after you're finished your infantry and artillery.

You might not know this, but the British (and Germans) were in the habit of stripping their elite companies from their parent regiments and putting such companies into combined battalions. British regiments had ten companies total: eight center (or "hat"), one light and one grenadier. German regiments had five companies, one of which was a grenadier company. So that gives you an idea of how many elite companies you can make for your Crown forces.

As the war went on, the Americans were created light infantry battalions from troops from other regiments, but sometimes on a temporary basis. If you end up buying "Rebellion", there's some commentary on this practice.

I'm not familiar with them, but I've heard some really good things about the new plastic Foundry 28mm American Revolution figures. If I'm not mistaken, the plastic British figures in that box give the buyer the option to make elite company figures. They also make American militia figures too, if you're interested.

I recently bought "Rebellion" myself, even though I'm not involved with "Black Powder"; for some reason, those rules just don't seem popular in my area. But it has A LOT more information on the armies and uniforms than I thought it would. I think you'll like it.

There are probably some folks out there who will disagree with me on this, but I think you'd like "Uniforms of the American Revolution" by John Mollo. It was published in the 1970s, and some people have criticized some of its information for being out-of-date. Still, it has plenty of information and great illustrations.

As you learn more about the armies of the American Revolution, you'll start to get an idea of what is known about such armies, what was once believed but now isn't, and what isn't known. You'll also have to make some choices about the appearance of your miniature figures, which, in all truthfulness, won't have much bearing on your games. For instance, do you want your British to be dressed in the 1768 Warrant regulations or do you want them wearing campaign dress? That's just one example.

I have to get ready to go to work, so I'll say good-bye. I'll bet you get a lot more responses from the other folks here at TMP!

Jeff

The OFM has some good advice here.

TMP link

I took the plunge myself, in 15mm. I aquired a gigantic pile of miniatures from a friend, and am in the process of sorting them out and figuring out what I am going to do with them.

I've picked up copies of Mollo and Rebellion myself. Good to know those are respected. I also tracked down a copy of British Grenadier. So, with that in mind:

what was once believed but now isn't,

Like what? Got any examples of things that could trip up a newbie?

I'm in the same position as ScottS. I bought a painted 15mm collection from one friend as a small, light, fun little side project, to be added to slowly as a collaboration with another friend. Later that other friend decided he wasn't interested anymore and I inherited his giant (largely unpainted) collection, and the responsibility to do it all myself. Oof.

Another uniform guide I really like: Tim Reese's Art of Wars uniform guides. The Uniforms of the American Revolution, 1775-1783 is 2 volumes and covers all (or nearly all) uniforms of British, German, French and Continental regular units serving in the North American theater with descriptions, color plates, and a bit of unit history. Sadly, militia and private units are not covered.

- Ix

Yellow, if you're ever near Denver, we should meet up for a game…

About rules:
Afficionados will argue endlessly about which rules are "better", and you will never find rules to satisfy hardcore Revolutionary War pedants, but most other gamers know so little about the tactics of the conflict that almost any horse & musket rules will work.

My recommendation is to pick the rules with mechanisms that are most popular in your group and make them work. Black Powder with AWI supplement is a fine choice if you already have friends who like the Black Powder mechanics. In my experience, the AWI is not a strong attraction for most gamers, so the games have to be fun if you want players.

I'm currently using RF&F with the official playtest AWI charts for my area, because RF&F has a devoted following around here and a bunch of us know how to play it. I end up writing a lot of chrome house rules, but it works.

- Ix

For some background reading:

I highly recommend reading With Zeal and With Bayonets Only for an excellent overview of AWI tactics. It's a very good read, and part revision, part clarification of earlier research.

Everyone else recommends the Novak books, so I will too. They don't cover every battle, some of the numbers are missing, but they seem to be the most complete source of AWI OOBs available.

I find the book A Guide to the Battles of the American Revolution Paperback by Theodore Savas to be very inspiring. The maps can be a bit stylized, there are no OOBs, and the troops numbers are guesstimates, but there's a lot of good background about each battle in there.

- Ix

Yep, its a good start. I'd second the need for American militia. Those figs, along with Continentals and Brits where you can make lights and grenadiers (separate heads) are made by Wargames Factory, not Foundry. In plastic, so affordable.

About rules:
Afficionados will argue endlessly about which rules are "better", and you will never find rules to satisfy hardcore Revolutionary War pedants, but most other gamers know so little about the tactics of the conflict that almost any horse & musket rules will work.

I have tried for decades to find the "perfect" AWI rules set. Some were merely gimmicks.
I finally settled on "generic" rules like Age of Reason, with suitable mods and The Sword and the Flame.
Black Powder is about as generic as you can get.
Go with what you like and are familiar with.
Unless you want to channel the generals who had no idea what they were doing, I see no need to try something completely different… just because.

The OFM appreciates the fact that his article has proven useful to some.

Btw I agree with adding a box or two of militia.

About your acquisition plan:

You can't go wrong with either 28mm or 15mm right now. You can get everything you will ever need in either scale, and there are excellent castings in both scales. Perry is a great choice if you can afford them.

I second everything Jeigheff said above:

1. Get militia. Most battles had some militia, and many battles had nothing but militia on the rebel side. I recommend that half your rebel units be militia in your "starter" army.
   
2. If you really really really want cavalry, then paint some cavalry, but my advice is to do them after you have enough infantry regiments and artillery batteries to fight a full battle. Cavalry units were tiny and mostly used for raiding and scouting, and everybody had trouble finding horses and keeping them alive. More than half of the "cavalrymen" in the war fought on foot because there just weren't any horses for them to ride. Cavalry are more appropriate to skirmish games than pitched battles in the AWI period.
   

One further recommendation:
Before you get cavalry, consider doing 1-2 units for each side of backwoods irregulars – Roger's Rangers, the Overmountain Men, Marion's Men, etc. Daniel Boone-like marksmen sniping from behind trees or leaping out of ambush on march columns are what everybody expects to see in an AWI battle, and these guys were really good at it.

- Ix

Yellow, if you're ever near Denver, we should meet up for a game…

Likewise, if you find yourself in the San Francisco Bay Area.

- Ix

With that in mind, you might want to consider making your American force a little larger than your British one, but giving the Americans some troops of various effectiveness, like militia or partly trained line.

If you look at the Novak OOBs, you quickly discover that the crown forces outnumbered the rebels in most battles. This was even more true at a unit-to-unit comparison: militia regiments were often lucky to have 200 men, while a crown regiment tended to be about double that, and Hessian regiments triple or quadruple. (Converged and elite crown units got smaller as the war went on, sometimes down to militia size, but usually only after marching and fighting across the vast back country for years.)

Since I play rules with a figure ratio (typically 1:20 or ~40 men per stand), this makes a huge difference, as you can visually appreciate that those giant Hessian units are as big as several militia units, and when they shoot a volley… look out! I compensate by telling everyone that the rebels will lose the battle but not necessarily the scenario, then I set the VP values of crown casualties at double the rebel regulars and militia at half the rebel regulars. This totally works – many crown players grumble all the way to victory and many rebel players have a great time while getting the snot kicked out them, because the points rack up so unevenly and the rebels often win the game even after fleeing the field.

In rules that set each unit to a generic size, the numbers disparities will be lost, so you may have to drastically increase the morale and firepower ratings of crown forces to get a proper accounting of the number of bodies absorbing casualties and producing fire. If your rules will allow for "large" and "small" units (e.g., one extra stand, one less stand), I recommend making most Crown line units and Hessians "large", most Continental and converged units "average" size, and most militia units "small". Even if such adjustments have no impact on morale or fire effect, they will (and ought to) affect movement and maneuvers, and provide a visual indication of the numbers involved.

- Ix

Besides the early New York Campaign, where else did the British outnumbered the Americans? Certainly not the Southern and Saratoga Campaigns. Not at Yorktown.

Maybe part of the Valley Forge Campaign? I think the British outnumbered the Americans at Quebec. Can't think of another example. I am sure someone will come up with a dozen examples.

Once the American Militia starts showing up in numbers, the American ranks swell very quickly like at Saratoga or King's Mountain. The British have trouble matching them in terms of numbers. Of course the British almost always had better quality troops.

Some other words of advice:

Use the nice paper flags available. They're pretty easy to make with color printers and copiers these days, but if you're low on crafting skill and you can afford the Flag Dude, consider buying from him. Nice flags can really dress up a unit, even flea market specials with mediocre paint jobs.

Technically, converged units didn't carry flags. Mine do anyway, because I find flags help identify unit boundaries on a gaming table, and in the F&F system, it's important to be able to find the command stand with all the unit info. You'll have to decide that one for yourself.

Paint stands of "generic" militia, and throw them into units around any militia command stand for a game. The militia were mostly in civilian garb, and there are plenty of "ragged militia" figures around these days. Having several units of patched, bandaged, dirty, ragged militia units with a variety of hats and civilian clothing colors really adds to the flavor of the period. Make the command stands look like a proper uniform, but suitably ragged around the edges and maybe with mismatched pants or shirt or hat on the flagger and drummer. Militia should have character.

Spend as much time making terrain as miniatures. AWI battlefields were littered with small stands of trees, fences, orchards, tilled farm fields, creeks, the occasional plantation or farm or hamlet, and other small terrain disruptions, and were frequently edged by thick forest. A billiard table with a road across it looks nothing like an AWI battlefield, and will result in slaughtered rebels. There were no pitched battles in deep forest, but there were plenty of pitched battles where the opposing forces emerged from congested terrain onto the more open battlefield, and congested terrain is where the rebels fled back to after they routed off the field.

- Ix

Besides the early New York Campaign, where else did the British outnumbered the Americans?

Bunker Hill, Brandywine, Monmouth, The Battle of the Clouds, Red Bank, Springfield, White Plains, Cowan's Ford, Blandford, Green Spring, lots of little battles.

OTOH, I'm sure there are lots of counter examples. Perhaps I overstated a bit when I said "most battles". The rebels had lots of men available, but had a hard time keeping them in the field or concentrating them for battle. This got better as the Continental army grew and improved. Meanwhile, the British had lots of men at the beginning, but a very hard time replacing losses, and after the French declared war, whole units had to depart for other theaters.

Certainly not the Southern and Saratoga Campaigns. Not at Yorktown.

I thought the overall numbers in the Southern campaign were about even, but the major battles in the Carolinas (Cowpens, Guilford Courthouse) had rebels outnumbering loyal/crown forces, which is what miniature wargamers will actually see on the table.

The rebels had more troops in the Saratoga campaign, but Burgoyne kept getting better concentration of force in the individual battles, so "who had more" probably depends on which battle of the campaign and how wide the scope of the battlefield is. Most wargamers aren't going to set up the entire battle area of the Saratoga campaign, just Freeman's Farm or Bemis Heights or something.

I'm not familiar with the Yorktown campaign. Were there any pitched battles? It certainly ended with Cornwallis badly outnumbered and under siege, but I don't know many gamers that would bother playing a siege with miniatures. My main interest in Yorktown has always been the naval battle and surrounding campaign, which is outside the scope of this thread.

- Ix

I concur with many of the points already made.

This was an infantry war, buy the dragoons last.

You will find militia and a few riflemen handy for the rebels.

Note many militia units can often double as Continentals without problem. consider having some stands with one partially uniformed soldier. Then those types of stands can fit in with Continentals or militia.

With my 15s I even have some riflemen based on half stands so they can serve as skirmishers or be pushed together to make full stands for service in Continental rifle regiments.

For the British remember the lights and grenadiers did more fighting than the hat companies so you should have at least one of each. If you put them in campaign uniform one unit can pass as grenadiers or lights in a pinch, although there were differences. Unless doing skirmish gaming mix the facings in the light and grenadier units.

I know some people act like cocked hats were out for everyone, but I am not convinced. A cocked hat can be very functional worn backwards with the brim untied and laid flat as many of the military treatises advised while on campaign. So if you put your hat men in hats and your flank companies in round hats it will be easy to differentiate them. Also there are some accounts of grenadiers wearing their bearskin caps in battle so if you want them have them.

I don't think that your militia would be Ragged. Militiamen live at home and only get called out when needed. So presumably they haven't been on campaign long enough to wear out their clothes. Something to consider.

My grenadiers and fusiliers all have fur caps, not a one in hats. They are my figures, after all.

Here's a nice simple set of free rules for AWI link

And yes, get some militia. They are always in style.
Cavalry didn't play much part in the north, more so in the southern campaigns.

I do notice that there's no real standard basing for AWI in 15mm – it sure seems like every game I've looked at suggests something different…

One further recommendation:
Before you get cavalry, consider doing 1-2 units for each side of backwoods irregulars – Roger's Rangers, the Overmountain Men, Marion's Men, etc. Daniel Boone-like marksmen sniping from behind trees or leaping out of ambush on march columns are what everybody expects to see in an AWI battle, and these guys were really good at it.

kingsmtminis.com/catalog

Go here for Over Mountain Men and the best Highlanders ever made. The OMM have seperate heads, so you can make your own unique figures.

Yellow Admiral,

For most of the major battles of the war the Americans had the numbers over the British. The exceptions are Brandywine,the New York Campaign and Monmouth and in just about each of those the difference was only a 1,000 or so. New York was about 5,000 more for the Brits.

It is the quality of British troops early on that made the difference. The Americans could quickly refill their ranks. Home field advantage.

After Cowpens and the subsequent American reinforcements The numbers at Guilford House were about 4,500 for the Americans and 2,100 for the British. Not that Cornwallis cared.

The Americans were just outnumbered at Monmouth, but the Americans were initially just fighting the British Rear Guard and then things got out of hand. At Brandywine the British had a 1,000 more troops more or less.

At Camden the Americans out numbered the British 3,700 to 2,100.

At Savannah the Americans outnumbered the British, 5,500 to 3,200.

Eutaw Springs is fairly even. Depending on source the Americans may have outnumbered the British by about 200 or more.

Pretty much all the 4 or 5 major battles of the Saratoga Campaign the Americans have the numbers except for the siege of Ticonderoga.

At Germantown Americans outnumber the British 11,000 to 9,000.

At Princeton the Americans outnumber the British 4,500 to 1,200

At Trenton Americans outnumber Germans 2,400 to 1,500.

At Yorktown the Americans outnumbered the British on their own and then you throw in French. Well there you go.

Even in the N.Y. campaign the British only outnumber the Americans, about 25,000 troops to the American 20,000.

IMHO New York was the British best shot to win the war after that the numbers don't work for them.

We have been playing AWI a lot the past 6-7 weeks. We've used Regimental Fire and Fury using their on-line supplement and Black Powder. Both rule sets provide a really good game. I prefer RF&F for a smaller more detailed battle but BP for a large game. We played "Brandy Wine" in 28mm using 1,200 figures and had a result in 4 hours at What-Khan in Rockford Illinois last weekend using BP.

Great thank you to all, your advice is most welcome!

And based on it (specially what Jeigheff, the Yellow Admiral and Redcoat55 adviced), I've reconsidered some things and remade a bit my plan. For now I just boosted a bit the rebels adding some militia in the form of 12 figure units; the regulars are in 16 figure units. I'll keep ordering the cavalry (even if it's just for its cool factor) along some more arty, skirmishers, regulars and militia in the future. I've kept to Perry figures, both for visual coherence and because I don't want firing lines (except for skirmishers: Wargames Factory makes firing lines, which in itself is pretty fine but not what I'm looking for).

I want the British in campaign dress , all having a likely look, and will give some units caps. I'll add in the future proper British Grenadiers (18 figure unit, a bit stronger to represent flank companies from units in garrison) and Highlanders (12 figure unit, militia sized to represent Loyalists). This is how it will get in the end:

Rebels:
8 x 16 strong units of Continental infantry (1 in hunting shirts; curiously I already had a metal command which the Perry sent me "by mistake" long ago – guess it was part of an evil plan of theirs to put the AWI spark on me).
4 x 12 strong units of Militia infantry (not uniformed; 4 in coats, 4 in "shirt sleeve order").
4 x 6 strong units of skirmishers, all in hunting shirts (so easy to spot and separate)
1 x 6 strong Light Dragoon cavalry unit (with tarletons; I love tarletons)
2 x Continental artillery units (1x6 pounder and 1x3 pounder)
3 mounted officers to make brigade and army commanders

Redcoats:
2 x 18 strong British converged infantry units.
6 x 16 strong British infantry units.
1 x 12 strong Loyalist Militia unit.
4 x 6 strong units of skirmishers, half indians and half Loyalists or British
1 x 6 strong Light Dragoon cavalry unit (with tarletons of course)
2 x British artillery units (1x6 pounder and 1x3 pounder)
3 mounted officers to make brigade and army commanders

So I'd have 2 somewhat assymmetrical but balanced (hope so) armies to play "generic" scenarios. The British one I could play as generic campaign dress (with a generous attittude) or as a Saratoga one; the Americans could too work as both. Also I find the Americans are prone to being used for Imagi-Nation purposes, with new standard bearers sporting Imagi-Nation flags…

Regarding books, I ordered 'Rebellion' for Black Powder (which I already have) and, as I already ordered the Digby book on uniforms (a bit rash but as I have other Digby books in uniforms it will add to the collection; also it was 2nd hand dirty cheap), I'll save the Mollo book for later. The Savas book on battles has been ordered too, alongside J. Black's "War for America […]". All of them used books and so cheaper too. "With Zeal and Bayonets" although very interesting looking and affordable, I've saved for later, along with Mackesy's and Higginbotam's essays (a lot of reading already to do) and the "Rebels and Redcoats" book.

That's all for now. Again, big thank you to all for your advice.