Uesugi Kenshin | 01 Nov 2014 6:01 p.m. PST |
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Battle Phlox | 01 Nov 2014 6:11 p.m. PST |
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thabear | 01 Nov 2014 6:32 p.m. PST |
I'm glad none of the groups I am involved in are anything like that. Those chaps look like a bunch of thugs in armour , there's no display of skill or honour. cheers Tom |
benglish | 01 Nov 2014 6:38 p.m. PST |
That's the only European sport that I would ever watch over the NFL. |
Juan Kerr | 01 Nov 2014 6:55 p.m. PST |
If your reenactor group does look like that then you are doing it wrong |
goragrad | 01 Nov 2014 7:18 p.m. PST |
No foining, blunted weapons, looks like a medieval tourney's general foot melee. With the caveat that these fellows look to have even more of a 'tourney' armor than would have been used in medieval times – looks like a lot of padding underneath. Based on that I presume that their fatality rate is lower – the Church banned tourneys at one time due to excessive deaths… The primary difference from an actual combat of course is that once someone was down the attacker(s) would have stabbed through a weak point in the armor or taken him for ransom. |
Parzival | 01 Nov 2014 7:22 p.m. PST |
Well, in terms of "a bunch of thugs in armor" with "no display of skill or honor" that's sadly probably quite accurate for the typical medieval fighting man. I daresay most medieval battles largely consisted of men whaling on each other, worse than these fellows did. Now, would I much rather see a fight displaying skill and honor than this pathetic brawl? Yes. But in terms of what a medieval melee probably was, "pathetic brawl" is likely an apt description. |
79thPA | 01 Nov 2014 7:27 p.m. PST |
I'd say it's a fairly accurate representation of a melee. |
Great War Ace | 01 Nov 2014 7:40 p.m. PST |
I saw guys like this at Hastings 2006. They got bored with the pulled blows of rebated steel combat regulated by the "Vikings" reenactment organization. And between times some of them squared off and simply laid into each other. No padding either, just open helm and shield. I didn't see anyone get bloodied, though, so presume that other than full strength blows, they limited themselves to getting in one good hit and then separated. The engagements were brief in the extreme, not like this full plate stuff when they get a "target" to the point of practical insensibility, and then keep on pounding on him. That one guy who took the two-handed glaive hit to the back of the head (at c. 2:33 and replayed in slowmo at c. 2:37) dropped like a sack of wheat, out cold without a doubt. This kind of "play" can definitely get you maimed or killed…. |
Great War Ace | 01 Nov 2014 7:44 p.m. PST |
I have to add, that using light shields and single-handed weapons is very inaccurate coupled to the kind of armor they are wearing. Foot combat in full plate would inevitably require two-handed weapons almost exclusively. Thus the vicious shield bashes with the edges to the visors would be lacking from a "real" tourney of foot combat…. |
wrgmr1 | 01 Nov 2014 7:52 p.m. PST |
Wow, great way to get yourself hurt. Great war Ace has it, that guy gets hammered, out cold. I know of a chap who had his thigh broken in a scrum with the society for creative anachronism here in Canada. |
Sigwald | 01 Nov 2014 8:28 p.m. PST |
It's all fun and games until you get a full strength halberd smash to the back of the head, lol. Hello! |
thabear | 01 Nov 2014 8:40 p.m. PST |
It might be historically accurate but I wonder what their insurance premiums are like , if they have any . I attend a local 14thC event called a "Hastilude " using blunted steel weapons. It involves several combatants on the field at once in a small tourney. I suppose you could say in team encounters or sometimes in one on one encounters. The sort of "combat" seen in the video is far removed from what we do so I suppose I'm not qualified to comment. However anything like that video would be seen as bad sportsmanship in our events and definitely frowned upon. I also like my nose on the front of my face. The use of shields was very limited by this period and usually two handed weapons were the norm for dismounted combat . cheers Tom |
Puster | 02 Nov 2014 2:40 a.m. PST |
Seeing how they often use their full body weight to fell their opponent, the use of a hedgehog of pikes, dense formations and cooperation between fighters really comes to the forward. Not having hard and dry underground probably made tacklings and kicks much more dangerous to your balance, too. I assume that once an actual battle got to the stage of such a brawl, one side was broken and the massacre started. Organized brawls between Hooligans with their flow of lines have probably more in common with many medieval combats then this mixed arena. |
KTravlos | 02 Nov 2014 2:46 a.m. PST |
You should check the huge viking, fights that Russians, Poles etc do. As long as none of them are forced into it, I got no dog in this fight. As Michael Walzer says, if the people involved do this of their own will, and are not forced by lack of work or coercion into it, meh. It is interesting as an indicator of how much protection armor did give. |
Cerdic | 02 Nov 2014 3:34 a.m. PST |
I was talking to one of my son's friends who does medieval re-enactment. He said they did an event where there was a group from Poland involved. When the fight started the Poles weighed in with full strength blows, really laying into their opponents. The organisers stopped the thing within seconds and asked the Poles what they were doing. Their reply? "We are re- enactors. This is what they did then so this is how we do it". Made sense from their point of view! Having worked with several Poles and other Eastern Europeans, their view of the world is not the same as ours in the West…… |
Cerdic | 02 Nov 2014 3:40 a.m. PST |
There is an organised International competition for this sort of thing… link link |
bandit86 | 02 Nov 2014 5:05 a.m. PST |
Darwin award nominee. But it's probably how it was you were trying to kill the other guy. |
Dynaman8789 | 02 Nov 2014 6:22 a.m. PST |
> Those chaps look like a bunch of thugs in armour , there's no display of skill or honour. Sounds pretty realistic actually… |
Sigwald | 02 Nov 2014 7:55 a.m. PST |
Also entertaining to watch light infanttry style reenactors YouTube link |
raylev3 | 02 Nov 2014 8:50 a.m. PST |
there's no display of skill or honour Do you think they fought fair. You can bet this is a much more realistic version of a melee. |
Gunfreak | 02 Nov 2014 9:43 a.m. PST |
Honour no, but skill yes. |
Jlundberg | 02 Nov 2014 1:18 p.m. PST |
It looked like a free for all. It might be more interesting if there were identifiable sides |
M C MonkeyDew | 02 Nov 2014 5:08 p.m. PST |
Very realistic. Keep on your feet and all is well. Fall down and hope no one is able to finish you off. Hats off to the refs in there with no armour. |
jgibbons | 02 Nov 2014 6:00 p.m. PST |
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goragrad | 02 Nov 2014 7:36 p.m. PST |
Again, unless those fellows are really stocky, there is a lot of padding under that harness. Far more than medieval combat armor would have had. Should be pretty low odds of injuries to the torso and legs if there is a restriction on blows to unarmored areas. I once watched a young fellow in the SCA loosing scales off his cuirbouli armor with a gambeson underneath and not even feel the blows. Frankly in the SCA I didn't wear padding under my lorica segmentata or plate leg harness. Got a real nice bruise when my opponent at practice found the spot just above the cuisse… On further review of the video, I note that there do appear to be teams. Would have thought to see a bit more unit type tactics. Of course in a compilation video one is just seeing selected portions of the combat. Presumably chosen for the intensity of the action. A couple of groups staring at each other prior to a free for all wouldn't have the same adrenalin factor…
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thabear | 02 Nov 2014 10:14 p.m. PST |
My comments " no display of skill or honour " are directed more at the carelessness of many of the blows and disregard for anyones safety. Even the public observers are within striking range of a wayward blow or broken weapon . It does look accurate but no group I know of would ever do a display like this. It might also be acceptable for some re-enactor group in some countries, all I'm saying is groups I take part with take more care not to injure their opponents. Where i am its already very difficult to own steel bladed weapons of any sort even for the purpose of re-enactment , behaviour like this at a public event would just get us banned altogether. Although I must admit Battle of the Nations is quite popular viewing with us. Cheers Tom |
Mac1638 | 03 Nov 2014 3:37 a.m. PST |
I have a friend that is in a British group that participates in this sort of combat, it takes place all over europe (but mostly in Spain) he enjoy it, and they follow rules, they all have agreed on. They have kicked the Russians and some other eastern europeans groups out because they will not follow the rules. |
Old Slow Trot | 03 Nov 2014 7:52 a.m. PST |
Should've seen me last year at an ACW event. My outfit rushed an artillery section,I bumped into one of the gunners and we both fell down. No injuries,though,and I got back up and rejoined my pards.. |
dapeters | 04 Nov 2014 12:59 p.m. PST |
Better looking than most SCA fighters (on average) and every bit as historic :-) |
Great War Ace | 04 Nov 2014 4:18 p.m. PST |
How much would one of those cap-a-pie suits cost? The quality of the steel looks excellent, as the way it is being assaulted in the video clips is full strength with steel weapons and the resulting dents are minor…. |
The Hound | 04 Nov 2014 5:08 p.m. PST |
they are not allowed to thrust or use warhammers |