"Austrian Landwehr query for Wagram " Topic

After bombarding myself with books On Essing and Wagram campaigns by Histoire and Collections and info gratefully received from you guys , I have settled on certain division .

This is in the 4th Corps at Wagram. I am trying to do 1st Brigade of the 3rd Division as my core . Not trying to do it 100% historically so to speak but just wanted a formation that contained units that would have appeared together on a battlefield.

The battalion ( 1st Brigade) contains 2 Landwehr battalions. The 4th Vienna I am OK with as there is a picture of these as a guide .

The other unit is the one I am struggling with which is listed as 2nd Schonborn Landwehr Bat . All I can come up with is that it was commanded by a certain Major Count Franz Schoborn. I have also seen a list of which he commanded the 2nd Battalion Ernstbrun.Is this a total different unit to the one I am enquiring about?

My main question is over the uniform . I think its Lower Austrian and therefore will it follow the "Confederate ACW Grey " look with red cuffs and collars etc ?

Any more info on this unit will be very much appreciated.

Thanks for your anticipated assistance again guys .

Don't know if you've seen these but they are some good sites for Austrian Landwehr. Your answer might be buried in here somewhere.

link

link

From what I can see they were a Bohemian unit and:

The Bohemian Landwehr wore "Hungarian" type uniforms of a brown "Spencer"-style jacket with red facings and braid, a round hat with black and yellow pompon, Hungarian breeches, high boots and black equipment. Otherwise those uniforms, perhaps, were those of the 1800 Archduke Charles volunteers.

For the first day of Wagram, which seems to be the time of the order of battle for Brigade Weiss that you are doing, we have the following for Landwehr in Brigade Weiß (there were re-assignments before and after this day).

Usually the Austrian order of battle for Wagram shows this Landwehr batallion associated witth IR3 Erzherzog Karl
Viertel Ober dem Manhartsberg Landwehr
2. Battalion Waidhofen an der Thaya ("2. OMB") : Major Anton v. Eisenkolb, später Major Baron Clemens v. Beissel, später Major Graf Franz v. Schönborn

However in the regimental history of IR3 and some other sources, the battalion is given as this one (note that the Major Graf v. Schönborn also commanded this battalion):
Viertel Unter dem Manhartsberg Landwehr
2. Battalion Ernstbrunn ("2. UMB") : Major Graf Joseph Heinrich Obergfell, später Major Graf Franz v. Schönborn, später vacant (Oberstleutnant Graf Johann Heinrich v. Hardegg)

In either case these were "Lower Austria" Landwehr and uniformed accordingly. From the Bilderseries of Hause Joseph Eder (Wien, 1810):

The other Landwehr battalion in Brigade Weiß, the one associate with IR 50 Stain, is usually given as the following (note that we have the Major Baron v. Beissel changing commands):
Viertel Unter dem Wiener Wald Landwehr
4. Battalion Wiener Neustadt ("4. UWW") : Major v. Buol, später Major Baron Clemens v. Beissel

Between the rather constant brigade re-organizations, the changing battalion commanders, the use of geographical indentifications differing only in "Ober" vs. "Unter", and the use commanders' names for identifying battalions, to be quite sure of the Ausrrian order of battle is really rather a substantial challenge. Likely the only way to be sure is to get the formations' officer lists and check the indiviual service records (if they exist) for a sample the units' junior officers.

While I can often do that for French and Russian junior officers, I am not knowledable enough of the careers of Austrian officers. Perhaps another colleague can help.

- Sasha

Sasha'a info is consistent with Razor78 2nd link (lovely links!) – though this does not resolve whether the 1st battalion was 2OMB or 2 UMB, but there a strong suggestion that the unit had moved to Johann's forces by Wagram.

Both Inner Austria units. The 2nd link has some nice ideas about the different hats worn by the different areas… though not consistent with Sasha's picture – which probably refers to what they wanted the uniform to be.

Now ask about the flags….

I will save this info for when I get back to the Austrians..

Many thanks guys . I have to say I was a tad disappointed that you agree with me that they are Lower Austrian which means I will have 2 units painted the same way( very similar to Confederate Artillery men ) .I was hoping that they would be something a bit different like Razor78 was suggesting . But Hey Ho that's life .

As regards Flags for the Landwehr , I just passed on that one . I will intend on the use of normal infantry type flags until somebody says otherwise . Its something that could easily be altered in the future if using paper flags

And many thanks again for your input. I new nothing about Austrians apart from the white uniforms before I started the project and thanks to you guys I have now gained a basic knowledge .

My earlier post missed out a "forme" first para. Not that it makes any difference for your purposes.

I remember reading somewhere that the landwehr often old regular flags, so you won't go too far wrong. You could use an older pattern of flag (1805 say) than the regulars

Thanks Mat

That's what I had in mind using the old flags. GMB make some of the earlier pattern.

I must admit this project is looking now quite big as this brigade alone contained 8 battalions which is over 300 figures .Thankfully there appears to be an enjoyment in painting Naps figures more so than my beloved WW2:)