Tango01 | 28 Oct 2014 10:22 p.m. PST |
"The balance of power in the Middle East is in disarray: A three-year civil war has torn apart Syria and opened up a vacuum for the rise of the Islamic State group; Sunni powers led by Saudi Arabia continue to face off against Shi'ite powers led by Iran; other countries are reeling from uprisings in the Arab Spring; and foreign powers are all taking sides. Faced with this tense paradigm, every country in the region is building up its own military…" Full article here link Amicalement Armand |
doug redshirt | 29 Oct 2014 5:17 a.m. PST |
Cant make bricks without straw. Doesnt matter how much you spend if the raw material is rotten. |
zippyfusenet | 29 Oct 2014 7:26 a.m. PST |
They just need something to unite around and commit to. A 19th century European concept of nationalism? Nope. Some beduin royal dynasty foisted on them by kuffar imperialists? Nope. A Koran written in blood and permission to pillage, rape and enslave every kuffar in arm's reach? Hm. Daesh is fielding the most effective warriors in the neighborhood. |
Cyrus the Great | 29 Oct 2014 8:30 a.m. PST |
Learn something new every day. It like the quote from the Princess Bride, ""Inconceivable." You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
Rod I Robertson | 29 Oct 2014 8:53 a.m. PST |
Most powerful militaries in the Mid-East: 1) Israel. 2) Turkey. 3) Iran. 4) Jordan or Saudi Arabia – not sure which. 5) IS/ Daesh. Egypt would be # 3 but it's in Africa. Rod Robertson. |
Bobgnar | 29 Oct 2014 10:57 a.m. PST |
Rod, just to get a little off topic and clarify your comment (The list of which I thought was quite good). The middle east is more of a political concept then a geographical one in some context. Africa is a continent so if Egypt is in the continent of Africa, and not in the Middle East, what continent are those other countries in? Turkey we might say is in Europe. Are the rest of those in Asia? |
AcrylicNick | 29 Oct 2014 11:31 a.m. PST |
Bill, may I ask why the above posts by Gwydion and me were deleted? Gwydion merely listed a few historical battles where (as far as I can tell) a "Middle Eastern" army defeated a "Western" one. That's not offensive in any way, is it? As for my post, I pointed out the blatant racism in OSchmidt's post, who referred to Middle Easterners as "scum". Speaking out against racism is not prohibited by the forum rules, as far as I know. |
nazrat | 29 Oct 2014 11:52 a.m. PST |
Bill tends to remove posts which directly refer to a comment which is against forum rules, as OSchmidt's was. You two said nothing wrong-- the comments just would make no sense without the offending one. |
Rod I Robertson | 29 Oct 2014 12:09 p.m. PST |
Bobgnar: Sinai is in Asia as is most of Turkey. All the others are Asian or, if you want to be old-school, Asia-minor. The Saudis are too highly rated in my estimation. While they have very good kit, I suspect the quality of the officers and troops might still be wanting. That is not an informed opinion, just an intuition-based hunch, so if anyone knows better, please feel free to correct me. Cheers. Rod Robertson. |
Gwydion | 29 Oct 2014 12:19 p.m. PST |
AcrylicNick Ineffable is the way of the master. Practise Shikantaza and the path will be clear. |
AcrylicNick | 29 Oct 2014 12:27 p.m. PST |
Bill tends to remove posts which directly refer to a comment which is against forum rules, as OSchmidt's was. You two said nothing wrong-- the comments just would make no sense without the offending one. But our comments would make sense, because I had quoted the relevant passage from OSchmidt's post. And I'm asking this question specifically because Gwydion and I said nothing wrong – why would Bill silence us? You see, moderators on other internet forums do not summarily delete posts by members who have done nothing wrong, nor offended anyone. |
AcrylicNick | 29 Oct 2014 12:34 p.m. PST |
Gwydion, thanks for the advice; it's just that I've had a bunch (at least half a dozen) of my posts here deleted in recent weeks, without me ever being offensive or breaking forum rules. I'm starting to wonder why I bother posting on TMP at all. |
darthfozzywig | 29 Oct 2014 12:36 p.m. PST |
We're through the looking glass, people.
|
GROSSMAN | 29 Oct 2014 12:44 p.m. PST |
Looks like the doghouse is getting filled up! |
Lion in the Stars | 29 Oct 2014 12:49 p.m. PST |
I'm not convinced of the Saudi army's capability. The troubles of the Iraqi army are largely cultural, and Saudi has much the same culture. Lots of good tech, but no troops that know how to use it to greatest effect. And this assumes that the foreign maintainers actually are doing a good job once the shooting starts. I usually include the Egyptians in the Middle East (along with the entirety of North Africa, really), so Egypt is #3 or so. Israel and Turkey are tied for #1. Israel has better and more experienced troops, Turkey has a lot of them, but I think they're too close to call without a shootout. Jordan is about #4. Iran is tricky, because half of their military doesn't answer to the usual powers. The Revolutionary Guard seems more fanatical than capable, which drags down Iran's overall capability levels. |
Los456 | 29 Oct 2014 1:04 p.m. PST |
Where's that Gif of a guy eating popcorn at the movies when you need it… |
Rod I Robertson | 29 Oct 2014 1:18 p.m. PST |
Kyoteblue or anyone else: Could someone explain to me the meaning or connotation of these unicorns. I am an old f-rt and have no idea what the icon means. Ignorantly. Rod Robertson. |
Deadone | 29 Oct 2014 3:05 p.m. PST |
I'd say: 1. Israel 2. Turkey 3. Eypt 4. Saudi Arabia 5. UAE 6. Iran 7. Jordan 8. Kuwait 9. Oman 10. Yemen Qatar and Bahrain both maintain reasonably euipped forces but both have massive strategic vulnerabilities being almost glorified city states. Iraq's military is a proven dud and is lacking in many critical areas. Iran's military is technologically still stuck in 1970s for the most part. There has been no major rearmament since fall of Shah in 1979. |
Legion 4 | 29 Oct 2014 4:11 p.m. PST |
Yes, the IDF is #1 and the Turks have the 6th largest Army on the planet … The Iraqis … well … yes, Iraq's military is a proven dud and is lacking in many critical areas. |
Gwydion | 29 Oct 2014 4:29 p.m. PST |
AcrylicNick, I know, I sympathise – I've just given up banging my head on that wall a long time ago. |
Steve Wilcox | 29 Oct 2014 5:09 p.m. PST |
Bill tends to remove posts which directly refer to a comment which is against forum rules, as OSchmidt's was. You two said nothing wrong-- the comments just would make no sense without the offending one. But our comments would make sense, because I had quoted the relevant passage from OSchmidt's post. I think the thing is that Bill doesn't want the offending post (or parts of it) showing up as a quote in someone else's post, either. |
Tango01 | 29 Oct 2014 11:09 p.m. PST |
Israel's ranked as Middle East's best military "Israel has the most powerful military in the Middle East, an independent analysis says, followed by the armies of Turkey, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. The ranking of 15 countries by the New York-based technology and news website Business Insider analyzed the balance of power in the Middle East, concluding is radically shifting and that every country is increasing its defense forces, and Monday offered a "Top 15" list of each country's operational capabilities and equipment. Israel leads the list. "Pilot to pilot, airframe to airframe, the Israeli air force is the best in the world," a consultant to the survey said…" Full article here link Amicalement Armand |
Legion 4 | 30 Oct 2014 7:45 a.m. PST |
Of course, when you look at, say … Thomas's list … Besides the IDF, what other of those army have seen any real combat recently … if at all … And those that have, how effective were they ? |
nazrat | 30 Oct 2014 7:49 a.m. PST |
Nick, I didn't say it was fair or made any sort of sense, I just said that's what Bill does. I would expect to see your quote of the offending post and your reply to disappear before too long, too. Sorry, dude. |
Deadone | 30 Oct 2014 2:54 p.m. PST |
Besides the IDF, what other of those army have seen any real combat recently … if at all … And those that have, how effective were they ? None really. Even Turkey's operations against Kurds are quite limited in scope. In fact the most combat seen in recent times has been the Syrian army, which has proven to be reasonably effective. Iran has had a bit of combat experience but this has been through Revolutionary Guards (particularly Quds special forces) and volunteer Basij paramilitaries. The regular Iranian military continues to languish in relative obscurity. |
Legion 4 | 30 Oct 2014 4:15 p.m. PST |
Yes, I know, my question was more rethorical, but regardless, I agree with you Thomas. |
Stuart at Great Escape Games | 30 Oct 2014 4:23 p.m. PST |
Israel is the most powerful – it's the only nuclear power – but, in the context of the operations it has been involved in recently, it can hardly be rated as competent, let alone "the best". The Hezbollah should actually be on the list. In 2006 it defeated the Israelis while committing very little of its strength. Even the Palestinian resistance groups – which are pitifully armed – performed with distinction against the recent Israeli aggression in Gaza. |
Stuart at Great Escape Games | 30 Oct 2014 4:26 p.m. PST |
Legion4, the IDF hasn't seen much real combat recently, notably except for their defeat at the hands of the Hezbollah in 2006. |
Legion 4 | 31 Oct 2014 10:00 a.m. PST |
Sorry Stuart, I'm going to have to disagree with you … your statement shows your anti-Isreali leanings it seems to me. against the recent Israeli aggression in Gaza. The Hezbollah should actually be on the list.
They are regarded by many as terrorists and besides they are not a nation, country, state, etc. … Note ISIS/ISIL/Deash are not on the list that Thomas and I are discussing for the same reason. Regardless of them calling themselves a state … |
Rod I Robertson | 31 Oct 2014 10:38 a.m. PST |
Stuart at Great Escape Games: Nuclear weapons do put Israel in a category of its own but I agree that the quality of the IDF may have suffered in the last 30 years. The rhetoric however may have undermined the good point you were trying to make. Legion 4: IS/Daesh is a military entity so it should qualify as a military force. Likewise Hezbollah would also qualify. The OP linked to an article which includes non-state actors so in this case inclusion of Hezbollah would seem fair. Cheers. Rod Robertson. |
Legion 4 | 31 Oct 2014 2:27 p.m. PST |
Good point Rod … I guess it's kind of like the VC … thank you for the correction … Oops … I was snipped again … |
Rod I Robertson | 31 Oct 2014 2:49 p.m. PST |
Legion 4: If we can't be circumspect we become circum…. "snip-snip"! Keep your spirits high and your head down! Rod Robertson |
GarrisonMiniatures | 01 Nov 2014 4:28 a.m. PST |
There is always a major problem deciding what constitutes a nation/country. Who decides. One persons country may be another persons terrorist organisation. ISIS may not be recognised as a nation/country, likewise Palestine – but that's not what they believe, and frankly, if you believe in 'self determination', is it really our call? It's a very difficult question to answer. If it looks like a country/nation, if it acts like a country/nation… |
Legion 4 | 01 Nov 2014 8:54 a.m. PST |
Yes Rod, I believe you are correct … < I'll be heading for my bunker now … > And yes GM, it's an old saying, one man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist … As with many things, it's about predilections and perceptions … |