"Portuguese Btns in the Penn War " Topic
9 Posts
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The Emperors Own | 26 Oct 2014 1:11 p.m. PST |
2 Questions - 1. Did they have 2nd Btns I thought I read that the 2nd Btns were kept as training and replacements 2. Size of the Btns in the Field ? 600 men? I'm planning doing the Army for 1:20 Scale for General De Brigade |
Mike Petro | 26 Oct 2014 1:21 p.m. PST |
Yup and Yup. Regiments almost always had the 1st and 2nd battalions making an appearance on the battlefield. |
Garde de Paris | 26 Oct 2014 2:45 p.m. PST |
There may be a great deal on TMP through the search function, and as I recall, gamers would use 30 figures for a Portuguese battalion – 5 companies of 6 figures. 1 company is grenadiers (fringe edging the epaulette in dark blue and division colour). Cacadores were the same, but Atiradores were the elite company (black plumes instead of green for the rest.) I like to use 40 figures for a British battalion at the same time. I have used 30 up for British units. I do not do both battalions, nor do I do more than one battalion for a French regiment. We used to game, at times, with French battalions of 12, so 36 could be used as 3 battlions, or mounted as one of 36. We also used 18 for the French at times, 20 for the British. Obviously, we were not into landscaped basing! If I were doing the Portuguese brigade of the 4th Division in Spain, I would do 30 each of the Loyal Lusitanian Legion, the 11th, 12th, 23rd and 24th line. Lots of sky blue line identifiers. GdeP |
Prince of Essling | 26 Oct 2014 3:41 p.m. PST |
Organisational and uniform info on the Portuguese Army can be found at link |
Edwulf | 26 Oct 2014 3:56 p.m. PST |
Of I recall most regiments had two battalions serving In the field with Wellington. Cacadores were single battalions and the 21st regiment in Pictons 3rd division was a single battalion. |
ColCampbell | 26 Oct 2014 5:55 p.m. PST |
And normal brigade organization was two regiments of line infantry (4 battalions total) and a battalion of cacadores. Jim |
gamershs | 26 Oct 2014 8:11 p.m. PST |
Got this out of the Nafziger collection at the US Army Combined Arms Center cgsc.edu/carl/nafziger.htm This is one of his OB's for the English Army (British at Busaco 27 September 1810) with the Portuguese division and other Portuguese units scattered throughout the army PDF link |
pbishop12 | 27 Oct 2014 9:38 a.m. PST |
My Portuguese Brigade consists of 4 battalions x30 figures each. From Picton's Division. 9th x2 btns, 21st x1 btn, Cacadores btn x1. Plus 12 Cacadores skirmishers. All primed for General de Brigade. |
Gustav | 28 Oct 2014 7:29 a.m. PST |
Well I have also been thinking about this – as nominally they did have 2 battalions. However whilst doing my 5th Division I noticed the numbers were low. It is based on the OOB for Fuentes de Oñoro in 1811. Spry's Portuguese Brigade is reported by Gill and others to have the following numbers: 3rd Line – 2 Battalions – 724 men 15th Line – 2 Battalions – 556 men 8th Cacadores – 484 men Now the 3rd and 15th individual battalions are obviously low in numbers even when compared to other Portuguese brigades. However given these relatively low strengths would they have continued to fights as weak separate battalions or would each regiment have fought together as one ordinary strength battalion ? I know Wellington often combined units (Battalions of Detachments etc) when low on numbers and was loathe to lose battalions back to the UK whose numbers had dwindled. Personally therefore I lean towards the likelihood of each these regiments combining and fighting as one battalion though I have no specific evidence for this. I guess I'd like to know if this is reasonable or is there evidence either way. |
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