"Pompey's cavalry/ skirmishers at Pharsalus" Topic
8 Posts
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Mars Ultor | 22 Oct 2014 6:41 a.m. PST |
Wiki says that Labienus brought some German and Gallic cav to Pompey's side. Any other sources that speak of the rest of what Pompey used there? I'm trying to put together forces for that civil war. Also, any idea as to the nationality of his archers and slingers? Would anyone still be hurling javelins? Thanks |
BigRedBat | 22 Oct 2014 7:33 a.m. PST |
IIRC Caesar refers to some of the cavalry as being herdsmen, in his Civil War, which book must be the main source. I have wondered whether some might have been Roman nobles, as much of the Senate was (literally) in Pompey's camp. |
EvilBen | 22 Oct 2014 8:12 a.m. PST |
You're right, BigRedBat. Caesar (at Civil War 3.4) says that Pompey's archers were from Crete, Sparta, Pontus and Syria. Where the slingers come from is unspecified. His 7,000 cavalry included 600 Gauls; 500 Cappadocians; 500 Thracians; 200 Macedonians under the command of Rhascypolis; 200 Syrians ('including many horse archers'); 800 men from his own slaves and herdsmen; 300 from 'Gallograecia'; 500 Gauls and Germans (left in Alexandria as a garrison by Gabinius), plus unspecified numbers of Dardanians, Bessi, more Macedonians, Thessalians, and men from 'other nations and states (gentes and civitates)'. Appian (Civil war 2.70) also says that Pompey had men from elsewhere in the Peloponnese and Boeotia, and some Athenians (who don't sound very helpful). |
Swampster | 22 Oct 2014 11:56 a.m. PST |
"Besides the Greeks almost all the nations of the Levant sent aid to Pompey: Thracians, Hellespontines, Bithynians, Phrygians, Ionians, Lydians, Pamphylians, Pisidians, Paphlagonians; Cilicia, Syria, Phoenicia, the Hebrews, and their neighbours the Arabs; Cyprians, Rhodians, Cretan slingers, and all the other islanders. Kings and princes were there leading their own troops: Deļotarus, the tetrarch of Galatia, and Ariarathes, king of Cappadocia. Taxiles commanded the Armenians from the hither side of the Euphrates; those from the other side were led by Megabates, the lieutenant of King Artapates." Appian B.Civ 2.71 |
Mars Ultor | 22 Oct 2014 1:12 p.m. PST |
So, a follow-up question for any of you: how would you represent these (very disparate) forces on the table in just a few units? And, just as importantly, what company makes models for them? Cavalry: Gallic and Germanic could be easy enough, though I'd think they'd have a bit of armor after some time in Roman service. But what fighting style would eastern cavalry have? What auxiliaries would you use for forces for these "kings and princes [leading] their own forces"? (When reading about this battle I normally only read about the legionaries on both sides…did these foreign forces not play any significant role?). Thanks again! |
Swampster | 22 Oct 2014 2:45 p.m. PST |
I think Caesar tells his troops that the non-Romans will be behind the Romans as they can't be trusted to stand and fight. Appian says that they fled once the battle was going against Pompey, without having fought. This may be Roman propaganda of course. There were archers and slingers helping to hold the line of the stream. Thracians helped to try to protect the Pompeian camp. Cavalry probably included some horse archers. Possibly the Armenians had cataphracts. Some may have been between the two – shield, possibly some armour, javelin or longer spear – possibly long enough to be a 'lance' as suggested for Judeans of about this period. Considering the disparity in cavalry numbers, it would be important to get the balance right as you don't want the Caesarians to be swept away by too much heavy cavalry. As for figure suggestions – depends on scale. Generally, look at the Hellenistic/Seleucid ranges. link will help.
A lot of the non-skirmishing infantry were probably the rather ubiquitous thureos carrying types. Some were probably 'imitation legionaries' – Deiotarus already had some which then fought alongside Caesar at Zela. |
Crazyivanov | 22 Oct 2014 6:32 p.m. PST |
It might be fun to use just one or two units to represent each nation in the fight. As an example: Hebrew and Arabic Slingers, Gallic, German, and Gallo-Grecian (Galatian?) Cavalry( as many as you have in mail) Cappadocians and Armenians as Catafracts. Cretan archers (as the Spartan archers are likely to have been Cretans anyway due to the closeness of their states) Pontics and Syrians for non Cretan archers. The Herdsmen/Slaves could be represented either with Early Tarantine cavalry or perhaps Illyrans. All the "regular" infantry could probably be Thuerophori/Thorakitai, with bits of native kit (ie caps or cloaks) to represent each unit. For 25/28mm the Wargames Factory Persian head sprue might be a God send for goofy foreign head gear. |
Caliban | 23 Oct 2014 2:16 a.m. PST |
Simon MacDowall has a somewhat scaled down scenario here: link He does have some detail, though, on the composition of Pompey's cavalry forces. |
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