"Libya Continues Its Slide To Another Civil War" Topic

"Three years ago on Monday, Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi was captured and killed by a rebel militia in his hometown of Sirte, an event that was supposed to mark the beginning of a new, democratic era in the country. But today, Libya is far from stable. The country is sliding further and further into all-out civil war, with pro-government forces battling Islamist militias for power in the eastern city of Benghazi, where the revolution that ousted Gadhafi started in 2011…"
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Amicalement
Armand

Whew, glad we knocked the regime off and had a plan to stabilize them afterward. Oh. Wait.

This is what has happened across the mid east as we have pulled out. Bloodbath.

I wonder if AK-47 REPUBLIC needs an update for these mid east "banana republic" religious wars?

AK-74 Jihad Republic?

+1.

No surprise … Like US gangsters of the '20s and '30s, all the factions want to get their "piece of the action". For a variety of reasons, motivations, etc. …

Good one GeoffQURF! (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Waiting for Jeffersonian Democracy to grow in this fine Arab Spring.

Any minute now….

Perhaps, those dictators knew something we didn't, given all the outcomes since their overthrows, and/or attempted ones.

I suspect that is why we are now not actively working to dethrone Assad.

"…wars and rumors of wars".

I suspect that is why we are now not actively working to dethrone Assad.

We may have learned too late why many in the ME and SWA were ruled by dictators/warlords and/or corrupt/illegally elected gov'ts …

This is what has happened across the mid east as we have pulled out

We were never "in" Syria or Libya. We "got" in cause we pretend we don't like dictators and have a soft spot for cute little cuddly jihadis who for some reason turn out to not be peace loving liberal demoratic types.

AK-74 Jihad Republic?

Brilliant.

Yes, Thomas, IMO a strategic mistake in hindsight by the US was removing Saddam. He was horrible by Western (or generally any)standards, but ISIS/AQ et al proved to be much worse … Also look at what happened after the USSR left A'stan. It rapidly went into a state of chaos, much more than it was during the USSR occupation. I also believe in hindsight, the US gathering support and inturn arming the Muj to help defeat the Russians was also a strategic mistake. As is often said, nature abhores a vaccuum … and as we see, the vacuum in Iraq and A'stan leadership, etc. was filled with something much worse …

Legion 4, I totally agree.

I think the problem is the American mindset which assumes everyone is essentially the same – liberal, democratic etc etc. It's a case of "inside every gook is an American trying to get out."

The assumption is that once the Americans are in a country and the "bad guys" are toppled that these countries will naturally embrace middle-class American values.

There appears to be no acknowledgement of cultural differences.

I think the problems are partially cultural – America's perception of itself as greatest country on planet.

The other problems is also partially due to an obsession with technology as opposed deeper cultural understanding and other compomenents of HUMINT.

I remember in the book Horse Soldiers by Doug Stanton, where the author discusses how the CIA's didn't really have much reliable intel for spec ops going to Afghanistan in 2001 and they were using old copies of TIME and National Geographic.

I also think American intelligence community is prone to group think and that there's not much critical analysis going on.

Some of what you say I agree with. However, generally your average American … say ages 18-35, has very little clue about, what you call American believing it's the greatest country on the planet. Just ask the average college student. You'll get more negative views or worse, clueless looks. Most Americans are self-involved and have little idea about history, current events, etc. … They may not know if the US is or is not the best place to be on the planet. Or what is going on in the US let alone the world … But ask them what Kim and JLow are doing. Or the score of the current sporting event. You may get an earful …. The politians and media form the "doctrines", predilections, paradigms, etc. of the US's cultural perceptions, etc. … Not, as we say, "The man on the street" … The middle and lower class are only trying to get by. Cares little about ISIS, etc., until it involves them. The US intel assets have some very good people in their ranks. However like any bureaucracy it is full of pitfalls, etc. … One can advise leaders but in the end the leader makes the decisions. Right or wrong. That is the way democracy works. From a historical standpoint. This is not only a US intel paradigm. But in many cases, the intel fits the preceptions and beliefs of the unit/agency doing the analysis. Take the Battle of the Bulge, the Chinese crossing en mass into North Korea, the VC/NLF is only a small local group of Communists, the Iraqis will see us a liberators, etc., etc. …

It's ideology mostly. We live according to a fairly specific set of ideological guidelines, hence if the evidence of the world fails to support that, the evidence must be wrong.