The Painting Dutchman | 19 Oct 2014 7:03 a.m. PST |
I'm thinking of starting with the War of Spanish Succession in 6mm and am looking for info on how to paint the Dutch uniforms. I know Baccus sells a CD with uniforms for £48.00 GBP/€60, but I think it's too much for just a CD (if it were a printed version I would consider buying it). Are there more sources (cheaper/free) available for the Dutch WSS uniforms? (Sources in Dutch, German or French language are also fine) |
redmist1122 | 19 Oct 2014 8:00 a.m. PST |
Here are a few links that may be usefule: link link link I don't recall paying that much for the Dutch CD. But it is well worth it. Good luck! P. |
steamingdave47 | 19 Oct 2014 3:18 p.m. PST |
Dutch Army of William III Sapherson is a handy introduction, available from Caliver books and not too expensive. It really relates more to 9 Years War, but has relevance to WSS. The CS Grant books on Armies of Spanish Succession are good, but hard to find and often quite expensive. There is also Grant's earlier book called something like " From Pike to Shotte" which has a lot of the same material, I think this was a WRG publication. It sometimes crops up on EBay or Amazon, but some sellers ask stupid money for it. I got mine for about £15.00 GBP, but I see there is one on Amazon at around £94.00 GBP! The Hall CD is the dog's wotsits as far as info on this period is concerned, but it is a bit pricy ( although cheaper than some of the rices asked for the Grant books) It covers changes in the uniforms etc over the period 1690 to about 1710, great colour pics, some info on standards etc. To be honest, if you are doing this in 6mm, I would not get too precious- Foot guards in blue with orange facings, line infantry mainly in shades of grey, with various facings. In early part of WSS can have a proportion of pike. Some argument about when these finally removed, but up to about 1706/07 seems reasonable to have a few-adds a bit of variety. Guard cavalry in blue ( at one stage they had rather distinctive buff coloured hats), other cavalry and Dragoons in shades of grey. I think the cavalry may have worn cuirasses for part of the period, but I am away from home at the moment, so don't have access to my reference material. Great period, we play it a lot using Twilight of the Sunking rules and, sometimes, the updated Polemos set ( although I am not a great fan of the latter). |
Cardinal Hawkwood | 19 Oct 2014 5:43 p.m. PST |
you can go to some of the primary sources link |
9th Maine | 20 Oct 2014 3:22 a.m. PST |
The Vinkhuijzen Collection is hardly primary source. See link Use with extreme caution and verify with other sources. |
Baccus 6mm | 20 Oct 2014 3:25 a.m. PST |
Hi Benno, It may 'just' be a CD, but this work runs to 450 pages of text with 140 colour plates covering the uniforms, colours and standards of over 120 regiments. The research has been conducted over many years working from primary references and eclipses all previous coverage. If you could get a full colour printed version of what is a very minority subject for less than two or three times what is asked for the CD I think you'll be doing very well indeed! |
steamingdave47 | 20 Oct 2014 3:40 a.m. PST |
Peter is absolutely right about this CD. When someone is asking nearly twice that for the Grant Pike and Shotte volume, £48.00 GBP for that amount of information, bearing in mind the research time that's gone into it, is an absolute bargain. |
Oh Bugger | 20 Oct 2014 4:22 a.m. PST |
Go to the league of Augsburg blog its full of uniform info' including the Dutch. |
The Painting Dutchman | 20 Oct 2014 5:41 a.m. PST |
Thanks so far for the replies, especially steamingdave47 and Oh ! Much appreciated. : ) @Peter: I can imagine how much time must have been put in creating this ( massive ) work. I also understand how few people would buy a physical book about such a relatively small subject.
I would pay for example £48.00GBP for a paper book, likely even ( much ) more if the info inside the book is really good. This is because a book lasts for a lifetime, whereas the CD format might become obsolete in 20-30 years time probably even less as it's already getting obsolete in for example the software/gaming industry, where more and more software is being sold in "the cloud". This makes it less attractive to invest such an amount of money in buying a product you might not be able to use in a couple of years. The absence of sample pages that show how the uniform and flag plates look like makes it even less attractive to buy it. If the books were in PDF format, this would make it a bit more attractive, because it's possible to convert the file whenever the PDF format becomes obsolete. Or make the book available through a self-publishing print-on-demand store like Lulu ( heck I'd be willing to pay double the price for the Dutch uniforms book! ) as you did with the Polemos WSS rules. Peter, what would help is if you would include some sample pages on your website for your digital publications ( I guess even for the Polemos rules ) . This would make them more attractive because you can see what's actually inside the books. Product reviews from customers would also be really helpful ( although I understand your current website does not support such a funtionality, and it's not worth building it in because you're working on a new website ) . Also, a few basic uniform plates on the Baccus website ( link ) for the Dutch ( and I see the Palatinate ) would also be great for those who just want to paint a few of those units without having to buy a detailed book that they probably won't fully read anyway. This would probably help you sell some more figures too! It now sounds like the CD is worth it, and also probably the only real alternative out there. Please bear in mind that without sample pages, customer reviews and info on whether the book on the CD is in PDF format, £48.00GBP at first sight really is a lot of money for 'just' a CD. ;- ) A question btw: are the books on the uniform CD's in PDF format?
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DGT123 | 20 Oct 2014 6:08 a.m. PST |
BennodeGroot I have the CD and yes it is in PDF format. Great CD! I copy the flags and resize and print for my own units. The info is a great read if your looking for detailed data on weapons, uniforms ect. Also have some info on history of Dutch in war. The plates are great and if you go to On Military Matters and look in the WSS section the individual plates for the Bavarians are an example of the plates that are on the CD's. But if your only doing a few 6mm units and not really into the period it might not be worth the investment. If your looking to do the entire Dutch army in 6mm it might be worth the investment. |
enfant perdus | 20 Oct 2014 1:08 p.m. PST |
I've always wondered if the Hall CD covers more regiments than the other sources. Twenty-five years into the WSS and it seems like I only ever see info about a fraction of the Dutch forces. |
Thomas Mante | 21 Oct 2014 12:00 p.m. PST |
BennodeGroot, The Pike and Shot Society are in the process of publishing the same material in book form. There will be two volumes and the hardback edition I think is going to be on sale for about £75.00 GBP per volume for non members (PSS members can buy copies of society publications at a substantial discount). The paperback edition is somewhat cheaper but still around £50.00 GBP per volume for non-members. This work whether CDROM or the book version represents the most detailed description of WSS Dutch uniforms in English. The authors are Robert Hall and Iain Stanford and each has spent a number of years working on the project. |
The Painting Dutchman | 21 Oct 2014 1:08 p.m. PST |
Thanks for the additional info. @Thomas Mante: That's great news! Do you know if there's an estimation of when the book is going to be released? |
Druzhina | 22 Oct 2014 3:07 a.m. PST |
The Vinkhuijzen Collection is hardly primary source. Seelink Use with extreme caution and verify with other sources Agreed, the Vinkhuijzen Collection is not a primary source! Druzhina Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers |
Thomas Mante | 22 Oct 2014 11:16 a.m. PST |
BeenodeGroot Volume 1 is due back from the printers imminently by all accounts, volume 2 mss is complete but I am not sure of the precise schedule. I suggest contacting the secretary of the Pike & Shot Society: link |