"Is this Imperial Guard Vehicle Napoleon I or III?" Topic

I have always loved this drawing that appeared in Michael Head's French Napoleonic Artillery in 1977 (the whole book priced at £1.95 GBP!).

Searching the Internet I had found little more on this, so provenance is unknown. I have e mailed one source, a French special interest group and also our Guru on such vehicles Niels Rullkotter. You'll also see an antique advertised and sold plus a modeller's work who clearly feels OK for our period.

Here is my concern,. This is certainly Imperial Guard, but it does look very modern for Napoleon and First Empire. Is this more Second Empire and Napoleon III? My scratchbuilding has started, but I am reluctant to proceed!

I have the same book, and also love the drawing of the Ambulance within. I agree that it does look rather modern for the Napoleonic era. Some of that may be the effects of the drawing and modeling making it look more "finished" than it really was, just like the uniform drawings compared to the actual garments!

This could be from Napoleon I, I painted up the 25mm MinFig version years ago but the roof was more rounded. Remember the guard flying ambulance was an Imperial guard only vehicle and only used by them. It was a 2 horse , 4 wheeler version also, same as you're showing.

The figures in the bottom 3 pictures are not Nap III era so I would guess Nap I.

Warlords does a 28mm Napoleonic ambulance. It looks a lot different. The one in the picture is from the Second Empire.

I think somebody just added the wrong figures in the little diorama.

looks 2nd Empire to me, despite it is shown in the book by M. Head

I once built my own scratch-built Larrey Ambulance, details can be found here;
link

Tony

I am so grateful to you all. I had started to cut out all the plastic, but I was worried about the provenance. The images you have all sent me, commonsense, plus checking with later vehicles, tell me drop this now.

I need primary sources. The modeler, from the bottom three pics, is assuming these are Napoleon I.

von W I agree. To everyone else…thank you again. Many hours of work is saved.

Shame, it would have been wonderful. But this vehicle simply did not exist before 1815 (probably before 1865 actually!)

The uniforms of the personnel shown are 1st Empire, so the vehicle is probably first empire, if it is an accurate depiction.

The horse harness is also 1st Empire.

There were both two- and four-wheeled ambulances used by Napoleon's medical service. This could be one for the Guard, or it could be someone's imagination.

B

Brechtel198…agreed. But this is someone's interpretation of a drawing in their model/diorama. They might be wrong. It is great, the uniforms shown are right. But look at that vehicle, is it pre 1815 or, more likely, post 1860?

Tell me this is Napoleon I and I am so happy.

It is a wonderful vehicle.

But…. if Second Empire…no interest at all. Is that not awful?. Before Paris Musee de L'Armee closed this bit, I always walked through anyway. I spent ages in First and Second Restoration but, after 1816…yawn, till 1914! Sad, I know

The Ambulance is second Empire because the back wheel had 14 spokes. If it was First Empire then it would have 12 spokes.
Stephen

@Stephen
Your analysis of why that vehicle is second empire is TMP at its best. Deadhead great question in the first place
Thanks

I have two of the Old Glory French Ambulances from Napoleon I, and those models look very similar… quite possible there were some variations?
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I couldn't find an image of the 25mm Minifig Guard ambulance but the Olg Glory one is a dead ringer for the Minifig one.

What is also unlikley for 1er Empire – the small windows with glas.

So grateful to all of you. Who would have known about the 14 spokes, not 12? Not me anyway! Thanks again to Stephen for that. Niels R agreed the design is later than First Empire….which is shame. It looks great and would have been a great project

The Old Glory models just deepen the mystery. Now we have the old C shaped spring suspension and something that does look much earlier, with 12 spoked wheels. But did it ever exist?

Turns out someone was asking just this question, earlier in the year on another site. Rewarded with lots of images of the two and four wheeled flying ambulance we all know (Perry and Warlord for example) but nothing new.
link

I also tried the French 1809 interest group and they replied within 24 hours, but really cannot add any further info.

Tony's tutorial on the scratch built two wheeler I saved when if first appeared….because of the painting result.Take a look via his link, even if you are just using the Warlord model

Of the First Empire Larry ambulances, I have two of the Hinchcliffe light ambulances and one of the newer Perry heavy ambulance.
All superb models – the earlier Hinchcliffe models are more 25 than 28mm scale, but definitely serviceable when painted up.
Just adding this comment, so folks don't think the only option for the Napoleonic light ambulance in 25/28 mm would be the Warlord version.

Maybe to add a little further confusion to this, I believe the top image of a model supplied by @deadhead & the line drawing are different to the 3 images of the model shown below them.

The model shown below is of the 12 spoke wheel variant detailed by @summerfeld & has some other subtly different features such as the wood panels on the side..

I believe the lower model is an attempt at least at an example of a 1st empire ambulance.

How disturbing, I was trying to post an image of this vehicle found on a Russian website, about antique French vehicles, and suddenly something came up about Satan and sacrifice…………weird. Let me try again.

This seems to confirm later than Nap Ist

link

Well down the page after the marvellous Saxon Officers.