"Ebola: Sound people are on top of the situation" Topic
28 Posts
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John the OFM | 15 Oct 2014 5:30 p.m. PST |
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Mako11 | 15 Oct 2014 5:37 p.m. PST |
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!! Good one John. I needed a good belly laugh today, and your title fits the bill. Man, someone must have the hazmat suit market sown up, and is hoping to make a killing in the stock market, when they go public, if they haven't already. I guess the counter-strategy is shorting airline stocks. Wish I had some money to play with. I could make a small fortune. |
Battle Phlox | 15 Oct 2014 6:07 p.m. PST |
If you wrote this as a fiction no one would believe you could we have such incompetent leadership. If you were writing up a zombie scenario you'd want these guys in charge so the zombies spread to every city. |
Mako11 | 15 Oct 2014 6:15 p.m. PST |
I concur, and yet we do. Just yesterday, the head CDC guy said no booties, or head/neck protection was necessary for the nursing staff, and yet all the people treating patients in West Africa are wearing full head to toe protection, and even getting sprayed down with chlorine bleach to kill anything they get on them. What a dolt. Basic common sense dictates the need for full protection, with such a dangerous, contagious (yes, I know officially they say it isn't, but even well-trained nurses and doctors in the hot zone of West Africa are getting it, despite being extra careful), and lethal virus. Seems to me the hospitals/doctors/nursing staff/government need to enact full head-to-toe protection for everyone coming in contact with patients, and to spray them down with chlorine as well. And, the airport screenings are virtually worthless, since even patient zero would have been able to get past that (people only show signs of the disease 8 – 14 days after they get it). Fortunately, Ebola only kills 70% or so (50% – 90%) of those that get it, and 4,500 people from West Africa come to the US monthly, so what's to worry about? |
CFeicht | 15 Oct 2014 6:32 p.m. PST |
A trained nurse shouldn't really need to be told to not travel due to fear of contamination after treating patients with a serious and contagious disease of this nature. She is partially to blame. I'm not excusing the CDCs mistakes here, but let's be fair with placing the blame. |
Charlie 12 | 15 Oct 2014 6:38 p.m. PST |
At least in the hospital I work at, PPE is strictly enforced, usually well beyond CDC recommendations. Of course, we're also are a teaching hospital (one of the top 5 in the country) with a very large and robust infectious disease unit. The hospital in Dallas has to bear some blame in not enforcing a stricter quarantine regime. And (and it still needs emphasizing, evidently) ebola is not something you can catch through casual contact. Unless you call rolling around in someone's bodily fluids 'casual'… |
Mako11 | 15 Oct 2014 6:41 p.m. PST |
If someone coughs, or sneezes on you, of you even get a drop of sweat, or other body fluids on you, you can catch it, so that is pretty casual, if you ask me. Some doctors have confirmed that the virus can live on non-porous surfaces like doorknobs and countertops, for several days, so………. |
BrotherSevej | 15 Oct 2014 6:46 p.m. PST |
I get the chills when recalling back the events in Tom Clancy's executive order. Not the terrorist attack, but how finally Ryan ban travel to let the disease burn out. |
goragrad | 15 Oct 2014 6:51 p.m. PST |
As I have been stating for weeks on TMP and other sites – credible exposure should mean quarantine. No 'self monitoring' or 'voluntary isolation.' If they go on to develop ebola it is going to trigger the same situation for everyone they have been in contact with and necessitate residences to be checked for contamination as well. Simpler to just isolate people until the incubation period has passed. Same with travelers – quarantine them prior to their leaving their country of origin and make sure there is no contact when they do leave. Basic vector control for a deadly disease. |
Mako11 | 15 Oct 2014 6:54 p.m. PST |
Oh, c'mon, surely no trained doctors/nurses, like Nancy Snyderman, would go out and about, while under "voluntary quarantine", to get food to go, would they? What could possibly go wrong????? |
Charlie 12 | 15 Oct 2014 6:55 p.m. PST |
Uh, Mako, not quite. It takes moving the virus into a mucous opening or open cut (that's from the infectious disease researchers I hang out with during lunch. Interesting conversations we have…). It CANNOT enter through the skin. That's an absolute. What's ebola's worst enemy? The same as any virus; hot water and soap…. |
Charlie 12 | 15 Oct 2014 7:02 p.m. PST |
"Oh, c'mon, surely no trained doctors/nurses, like Nancy Snyderman, would go out and about, while under "voluntary quarantine", to get food to go, would they?" Sure… And then get fired, have their certification pulled and never have a hope in hell of working in the medical field again. Pretty stiff penalties. Now if she's wearing a decent mask to cover any coughs or sneezes, then she could conceivably go out. But if she worked at my hospital, and did that, that would be the last thing she'd do before getting fired… |
doc mcb | 15 Oct 2014 8:10 p.m. PST |
The nurse checked with CDC about flying and they told her to go ahead. And am I right that we still don't know how those Texas nurses got it? |
Toshach | 15 Oct 2014 9:02 p.m. PST |
Just yesterday, the head CDC guy said no booties, or head/neck protection was necessary for the nursing staff, and yet all the people treating patients in West Africa are wearing full head to toe protection, and even getting sprayed down with chlorine bleach to kill anything they get on them. Mako- Would you be good enough to post your source link here? I have been unable to find any source that corroborates your assertion. Actually, every criticism I've read regarding the protective clothing worn by the nurses was aimed at the Dallas Presbyterian Hospital. |
doug redshirt | 15 Oct 2014 9:08 p.m. PST |
Some perspective on the whole situation. 30,000 people die every year in motor vehicle accidents in the USA. 585,000 die of cancer every year. Another almost 3,000,000 will be diagnosed with cancer. I don't know the numbers that come down with flu, oh flu season is almost on us too. Lots of people running temps then. So tomorrow morning driving to work what are you more afraid of? |
Charlie 12 | 15 Oct 2014 9:16 p.m. PST |
Doc mcb- I doubt she called the CDC. In most hospitals, that advice would come from the hospital (it does where I work). As for transmission, probably a breach in the PPE protocols by either the nurse or the hospital. And as Toshach noted, Dallas Presbyterian has been getting criticized for its PPE standards. |
Chortle | 15 Oct 2014 9:19 p.m. PST |
You guys are worrying over nothing. Authorities have been so stupid that they have lulled the virus into a false sense of security. When they do something right, probably by accident, the virus will be knocked for six. In other news, US experts are coming to Bangladesh to offer wisdom on how to deal with incoming passengers. Those people showing symptoms are the safe ones, right? A total of 168 people have entered Bangladesh from Ebola-affected West African countries since August 12. Of them, 97 have completed the 21-day follow-up and are in good health.The US team's visit comes a week after six Bangladeshis returning from Liberia managed to pass through the airport without being screened. Rezia said five of them were screened later, and the authorities were still trying to locate the person who was yet to be screened. link |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 15 Oct 2014 10:46 p.m. PST |
If you haven't seen Steven Soderbergh's excellent movie 'Contagion' I highly recommend it. link |
Chortle | 15 Oct 2014 10:55 p.m. PST |
Those of you who haven't already seen them may be interested to see the Georgia guild stones
A message consisting of a set of ten guidelines or principles is engraved on the Georgia Guidestones in eight different languages, one language on each face of the four large upright stones. Moving clockwise around the structure from due north, these languages are: English, Spanish, Swahili, Hindi, Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, and Russian. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity. Unite humanity with a living new language. Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court. Avoid petty laws and useless officials. Balance personal rights with social duties. Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite. Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.
The most widely agreed-upon interpretation of the stones is that they describe the basic concepts required to rebuild a devastated civilization. Brad Meltzer notes that the stones were built in 1979 at the height of the Cold War, and may have been intended as a message to the possible survivors of a World War III. The engraved suggestion to keep humanity's population below 500 million could have been made under the assumption that it had already been reduced below this number. link |
JammerMan | 16 Oct 2014 4:37 a.m. PST |
That is pretty interesting Chortle |
doc mcb | 16 Oct 2014 8:45 a.m. PST |
I doubt she called the CDC. In most hospitals, that advice would come from the hospital (it does where I work).As for transmission, probably a breach in the PPE protocols by either the nurse or the hospital. And as Toshach noted, Dallas Presbyterian has been getting criticized for its PPE standards. Nope: OCTOBER 16, 2014, 7:02 AM|The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is under fire after it was revealed that nurse Amber Vinson called the agency to report a fever before getting on a flight. She is one of the two nurses who were infected with Ebola after treating Thomas Eric Duncan at Dallas Presbyterian Hospital. Hospital officials are offering beds for the 75 health care workers involved in his care. Manuel Bojorquez reports from Dallas. link and from NBC: The second Ebola-infected nurse from a Dallas hospital contacted Centers for Disease Control and Prevention officials on Monday to check if she could get on a plane with an elevated temperature, and was not barred from taking the flight, NBC News has learned.At the time, the CDC was still considering health care workers who treated Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan but wore protective gear to be at lower risk, and based on those guidelines Amber Vinson wasn't warned to stay off the commercial jet, a government spokesperson told NBC News late Wednesday. "Vinson was not told that she could not fly," said the spokesperson. Vinson was diagnosed with Ebola on Wednesday. She had treated Dallas patient Thomas Eric Duncan a week earlier. She then flew to Ohio on Oct. 8 — the day Duncan died — and then back to Texas on Monday. Before the Monday flight, Vinson, who had been self-monitoring and was reporting her temperature to epidemiology teams routinely, had called someone at the CDC to report that she had an elevated temperature of 99.5, the spokesperson said. Vinson was then considered in the category of "uncertain risk", which is a lower level, because it was believed that she had all worn all the necessary personal protective equipment while treating Duncan. This even though fellow Dallas nurse Nina Pham had been diagnosed with Ebola on Saturday. Oct. 11. When Vinson called in to the CDC, the staffer she talked with looked on the agency's website for guidance, the spokesperson said. The category for "uncertain risk" had guidance saying that a person could fly commercially if they did not meet the threshold of a temperature of 100.4. "These two nurses who are infected as well as the others who cared for Duncan but were wearing protective gear — a lot of them are falling into the category of 'uncertain risk'", the spokesperson said. "She represents uncharted water for us … She did not fall into a clear category." The head of the CDC, Tom Frieden, did not have all of these details when he briefed the press earlier Monday by phone. On that call he said "She should not have traveled on a commercial aircraft." The spokesperson says he believes Frieden said that because it should have been common sense to Vinson that she should not fly with a slight temperature. Frieden said that the nurse had had "extensive contact" with Duncan, including while he was vomiting and had diarrhea. Duncan contracted the virus in Liberia and flew to Dallas in September. And who is in charge? link |
Bangorstu | 16 Oct 2014 10:27 a.m. PST |
Whereas it's obviously a black mark against the US medical establishment, we are dealing with a person who, on feeling unwell after dealing with an Ebola patient, decided to mix with large crowds anyhow… |
Conrad Geist | 16 Oct 2014 11:14 a.m. PST |
Terrement wins the thread! |
goragrad | 16 Oct 2014 11:51 a.m. PST |
Well Bangorstu when you call the CDC for advice, you are presumably talking to the 'experts…' |
Conrad Geist | 16 Oct 2014 3:37 p.m. PST |
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Chortle | 16 Oct 2014 7:49 p.m. PST |
This Ebola business reminds me of quotes from the BBC TV series "Yes, Prime Minister" Bernard Woolley: What if the Prime Minister insists we help them? Sir Humphrey Appleby: Then we follow the four-stage strategy. Bernard Woolley: What's that? Sir Richard Wharton: Standard Foreign Office response in a time of crisis. Sir Richard Wharton: In stage one we say nothing is going to happen. Sir Humphrey Appleby: Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it. Sir Richard Wharton: In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we *can* do. Sir Humphrey Appleby: Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now. If you want to track the state of the Ebola crisis just refer to Bangorstu's latest comment on Ebola. Where the actual stage of the crisis is N, his post will insist we are at stage N-1. |
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