"Ottomans army make-up " Topic
12 Posts
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Kropotkin303 | 11 Oct 2014 4:18 p.m. PST |
Hi all, I am in the process of trying to build some Renaissance armies and I was wondering what did the Ottomans field around the mid/late 16th century? I see from DBA-RRR lists that they seem to have more cavalry than Western European armies. Looks like:DBA style 1595-1625 AD: 1 Cv (g) Qapukulu cavalry 4 Cv Feudal sipahis 1 Bw or 5Wb Azabs then 6 from: 1 Cv Qapukulu cavalry 6 Cv Feudal sipahis 1 LH Delis, Kurds, or Bedouin Arabs 1 Dr or Sk Sharpshooters with horses, or Slav or Anatolian sharpshooters 2 Sh Janissary Arquebusiers 1 Bw* or Sh Janissary archers *(can only be taken if at least 1 Janissary arquebusier is taken first) or janissary arquebusiers 2 Sk Slav or Anatolian sharpshooters 1 5Wb Azabs 2 7Hd Levendant or European levy infantry 1 Art Bombards 1 Art Zamburak camel guns What puzzles me is that they don't seem to have pike, but have arquebusiers. What supported the arquebusiers? How on earth did the Ottomans defeat the Western armies? What were their tactics and how did they operate? Oh and by the way does anyone know what Janissaries really looked like? All I seem to see are parade dress kind of stuff. What did they look like on campaign? Any help appreciated. |
Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut | 11 Oct 2014 5:39 p.m. PST |
To the best of my knowledge, the Jannisaries wore all that finery to battle. I believe that earlier Ottoman formations did use some pike, but later did not. Maybe 20 years ago I did a lot of Ottoman research, I lost all my books when I left my first wife 10 years agi :-( In a DBA scaled force, the number of pike may simply be too small to firm its own element and instead may be assumed to be in the shooting units. |
Sobieski | 11 Oct 2014 5:56 p.m. PST |
With so much cavalry of their own, they probably saw little need for pikemen. |
Druzhina | 11 Oct 2014 7:19 p.m. PST |
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KTravlos | 12 Oct 2014 5:45 a.m. PST |
Ottoman infantry heavily relied on entrenchment and forcing their foes to attack them. Their basic tactic (very generalized here) was entrench the center were the infantry and artillery lay, and fight with the wings where the cavalry stood. Operational strategy would be tied to tactics with a goal of forcing the defenders to attack you, usually by threatening forts. My guess, and this is a guess mind you, is that if they had to attack pike formations, they would rely on firearms to soften them enough so that the cavalry and infantry could charge them.Ottoman infantry would not charge a steady and ready pike formation. Also note that many of the foes of the Ottoman Empire did not use really big Pike formations when fighting the Ottomans. The Venetians, the Hungarians, the Poles, the Russians, the Romanians, and even the Imperialists relied on diffrent types of armies to fight in the Balkans compared to the ones they used to fight more Western foes. As for the Janniseries going into battle with the Prophets Arm, I think by the 16th century they would wear turbans on campaign, just like later Ottoman armies would turban their fez to help shield their eyes from the elements. But truly friend, it is your army, do with it as you will! |
Kropotkin303 | 12 Oct 2014 5:48 a.m. PST |
Thanks Punkrabbit, Sobieski and Druzhina, That answers my questions nicely. Go and buy a shed-load of lovely Spahi and Qapukulu cavalry, do some head swaps on Janissary Arquebusiers and get a rabble of Azabs to act as cannon fodder. Oh, and get the most ornate cannon I can find. Sounds lovely. |
Puster | 12 Oct 2014 6:26 a.m. PST |
Pike where usually too slow on the field to come to grips with Ottoman forces. But… >Ottoman infantry would not charge a steady and ready pike formation. Sometimes they had to. During the siege of Vienna in 1529 large breaches were torn into the walls by mines and artillery, and the Janissaries and others tried to storm these agains Landsknechts and Spanish units fresh from the battles of Italy. In the later stages of the siege, the Ottoman forces rejected commands for further assaults unless their leaders accompanied them. In 1532 a force of some 8000 Akinci – light horse raiders – were trapped by Imperial forces in the battle of the Steinfeld. They were pushed into this trap by a smaller contingent of Landsknechts under Schertlin – though admittedly they hoped that they would escape that route, not being surrounded by the rest of the army. Forced to attack now, they are reported to have perished bravely. Regarding Ottoman forces in general, here is a nice overview (in German, but with nice diagrams that contain their Osman names): link (and three following pages). The main difference was between central (palace) troops and provicinal troops – the latter were often only called near the theatre of operations. |
KTravlos | 12 Oct 2014 10:23 a.m. PST |
Puster, very interesting and unknown to me. But it does indicate that their preference would be to blast away. |
Puster | 12 Oct 2014 10:58 a.m. PST |
Janissaries usually had the option to bring bow or arquebus into the fight, and use whatever handweapon they preferred, be it sabre, axe or even poleaxe – pikes, however, are unheard of afaik, and pistols never caught until late in their existence – probably because pistols were only effective when you could almost wield your weapon. They were expected to be proficient with all weapons and usually decide for themself which would be best for a task. I am sure they did not fail to hand out distance when still far, so they surely would "blast away" – not to keep the distance, but to hand out damage. They were often deployed defensively in the center to protect the Sultan, and only send in when they could (or try to) hand out the decisive blow. As to your original question – Janissaries are classed as arquebus because they had the ability to shoot it out, but would defend themself as they also are cc-specialists. dingly. The "provincial troops" would provide the rest of the infantry, often a pretty sizable contingent. Azabs, Volunteers (gönüllü) and other auxilliaries would form the bunch, with "Volunteers", fighting without payment (though usually they were fed) and the chance of plunder, being the main cannon fodder and Azabs,coming from the old volunteer levy being paid, slighter better equipped, organized and motivated. As others already said, however, the mainstay of the Osmanic field army was the cavalry – used in battle around a solid central block of Janissaries. |
Kropotkin303 | 12 Oct 2014 2:06 p.m. PST |
Thanks once again, I will have to look for some good Ottoman figures at about 25mm size. Can anyone suggest good troops? It would seem that the Janissaries are needed, but I have yet to see miniatures of them that I like. Any suggestions? |
Mac1638 | 13 Oct 2014 3:12 a.m. PST |
You will be pushed to find 25mm Ottomans the old Hinchliff, Minifigs ranges and some of the Essex Persians may do. At 28mm have a look at The Assault Group Ottomans, they do a nice comprehensive rang, both bow and shot Janissaries. |
Druzhina | 14 Oct 2014 10:32 p.m. PST |
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