"Austrian corporals equipped as privates or sergeants?" Topic
9 Posts
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Inkbiz | 09 Oct 2014 8:29 a.m. PST |
Hi Guys, Would anyone know offhand, if Austrian infantry corporals (or their equivalent rank) were equipped as the sergeants (or their equivalent rank)? That is to say, did they carry that grenadier-looking short sword and a wooden cane/stick as well? Thank you for any insights, Bob |
SJDonovan | 09 Oct 2014 8:36 a.m. PST |
Hi Bob, This is from WJ Rawkins 'The Austro-Hungarian Army 1798 -1814': "All N.C.O.s from Vice-Korporal upwards were armed with the grenadier pattern sabre- briquet, the sabre-straps white for the Vice-Korporal and mixed yellow and black for the senior grades. The non-commlssloned officers all carried the traditional cane of office, hazelwood for the junior grades and blackwood with silvered cap for the Feldwebel and Fuhrer. The canestraps were as for the sabre-straps and the cane was fastened by the strap to the second button of the tunic and passed beneath the left elbow and through a buttoned loop on the sabre-belt." |
Inkbiz | 09 Oct 2014 11:13 a.m. PST |
Great, thank you SJD! I was somewhat confused because the nomenclature of the Austrian NCO's seems to have their sergeants called Korporals? |
Major Bloodnok | 09 Oct 2014 3:23 p.m. PST |
Where it says "sabre straps" would that be the sword knots? |
grenadier corporal | 10 Oct 2014 3:57 a.m. PST |
Rawkins has to be corrected in several points: Vice-Corporal was not a rank, rather a function – a private destined to become a corporal if need arose. He had a sabre only if being a grenadier (where all ranks had sabres), with a white leather sword knot. Corporal is more or less equivalent to the British rank of sergeant, Feldwebel to Company Sergeant Major and Führer (colour-bearer) was an intermediate rank, not really comparable to Colour Sergeant. The sword knots of Corporals and Feldwebels where of yellow/black wool, coarser for the lower ranks. Feldwebel – at least according to regulations – carried canes of Spanish Reed (a light beige-brown colour) with no caps. The straps of the canes were of white (or black for Jäger) leather, maybe Feldwebel had them in yellow/black wool. Those straps were fastened at the third button counted from the collar – at least according to regulations. When not carrying his musket the NCO carried his cane with the right hand, strap around the wrist. |
Inkbiz | 10 Oct 2014 5:36 a.m. PST |
Gren Corp, was there was a rank termed 'Gerfreiter', which appears to mirror a 'corporal' in other armies? If so, would they be equipped as the rest of the rankers, or carry the sabre as the korporals did? The Austrian army is really confusing compared to other major nations.. |
grenadier corporal | 10 Oct 2014 6:30 a.m. PST |
Gefreiter is a kind of senior private, "befreit" (freed) from some of the menial soldierly duties. He was equipped like a private, ie no sabre. There were no Gefreite in the grenadier companies. To compare ranks is always a sophisticated affair – I would see the Gefreite below the Corporal in eg the British Army. As an Austrian myself with a long interest in its historical and present armies I cannot find these issues more confusing than in other armies … but admittedly it is easier "from the inside" (I have been reenacting a Corporal in the Grenadiers of k.k. IR 56 Wenzel Colloredo in the Napoleonic Era for nearly 20 years …). If I can be of any help – please, just put forward your questions and I will answer them to the best of my knowledge. |
Inkbiz | 11 Oct 2014 5:33 a.m. PST |
Gren Corp, a very fortuitous response for me, thank you very much for your kind offer. I'm working on sculpting some small scale Austrians at the moment, putting aside my wee 1:500 figures for something larger, and I very much appreciate the aid of someone with your specific expertise! Sincerely, Bob |
xxxxxxx | 11 Oct 2014 12:50 p.m. PST |
In the Russian service there was much the same thing : вице унтер-офицер / vitse unter-ofitser / acting under-officer. These were also known as ефрейтор / yefreytor / gefreiter. These were senior combatant rankers, 6 per company, who filled in for junior non-commissioed officers whenever the number of these latter was insufficient (due to losses, detachments, absent on assignment, illness, etc.). When not called upon to act for an under-officer, they formed in the third rank with the other senior rankers. They had no uniform or pay distinction compared to other senior rankers, but did enjoy the possibility of being promoted to the next under-officer vacancy. So the function had a sort of on-the-job-training aspect to it. For English speakers, an idiomatic translation might be "lance corporal". - Sasha |
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