"20mm Sdkfz 221, Part 2, A Solution?" Topic

After my first post on the subject, it was clear that there was a definite gap in the market.

In my quest to find this vehicle I contacted various manufacturers.
One has come back with a proposal that if enough people were seriously interested in the 221, he would look into producing one.

Simple question
Are there enough of us out there to justify the production of one?

Over to you………………

Cheers
Worgaimz

What about Frontlines?

link

Dragon has 233. Make the kit whithout radio

Thanks chaps.

The Frontline one is a very basic option. I was looking for a bit more detail.

The 223 is not compatible without major changes. the turret is in the wrong position, being moved further back to accommodate better radio equipment. Plus the rear superstructure is different.

Thanks anyway

Whilst Fronline do produce a "221" for some it isn't detailed enough .

Excuse the ignorant question but what is the difference between the 221 and the 222? They look rather similar to me.

Differences covered here:

link

Frankly, they look virtually identical to me.

Similar but enough difference in 3D for it to matter – to some at least. 221 had only an MG34 armament – while the 222 had the 20mm gun and MG. That's the main thing.

Some people might be happy just removing the 2cm gun and covering up deficiencies with stowage and camouflage. Or adding details to the Frontline model until satisfied. It's not as if anyone would be fielding dozens of these little cuties – I'd imagine 2 at most.

The major difference to the 222 is the 221 just had a machine gun in a different type of turret.

The 223 had a 221 turret but further back as someone said.
Plasticard deck maybe…

The prospective model would be made from resin, as with the Frontline one. I am not against the Frontline version per se, I would just rather have a vehicle with more detail. I may well end up buying a couple and adding to them with stowage, camo netting etc.

The difference between the 221 and 222 is not just the turret, although that is the most noticeable thing.
The entire rear superstructure is different. Admittedly in 20mm it would take knowledge and a keen eye to spot, but I do like things to be right
Maybe I am just an anorak :-)

Cheers
Worgaimz

get the frontline one and do a bit of work on ot. I did,If I can find mine I will take a pic

If you can drum up enough support for someone to make a proper high quality 221 model that would be ideal. I just suspect with a vehicle that was never fielded in large numbers, is marginally effective, and already exists in an albeit basic form – this may prove a non-earner.

That Frontline model looks perfectly ok to me judging from the pic. Seems odd not to think of adding some detail as just an enjoyable bit of modelling. And theres a Dragon kit as well. Talk about spoilt for choice! One to simple and one too 'fiddly'? Do I get the feeling these days that everything needs to be perfectly finished and ready to go because people dont have the time or skill to make things themselves?
Come to think of it I do see a lot of 'display' games these days at shows, manufactured terrain tiles ( joins NOT flocked out, why not?) manufactured and half the time pre painted buildings and sometimes so I hear ( and the hearing is ropey) the whole thing produced to commision by a professional outfit.
Nothing wrong with all that in itself but as a display game surely something with more personal imput and imagination is wanted.
Or am I just a grumpy old dinosaur?
Apart from anything Frontline should get the sales for producing such an obscure little beastie.
Yep right I'll go back to my box now.
L

There were frequently quite a lot of Sdkfz 221 & 223 (I can't recall the split) in the wheeled armoured car companies of Panzer Recce Battalions in Normandy (and other theatres, though I have the data for Normandy). They sometimes outnumbered the Sdkfz 222s. So from a historical perspective, they should sell just as well as Sdkfz 222s. However, they do suffer from a lack of 'sexiness'.

For example, 2.Kompanie/Panzer-Aufklaerungs-Abteilung 21 in Normandy (21. Panzer-Division) had the following AFVs:

3x Sdkfz 221 (2.8cm PzBchs)
6x Sdkfz 221 (MG)
7x Sdkfz 222 (2cm)
8x Sdkfz 231 (2cm)
6x Sdkfz 233 (7.5cm)

I have been looking for a decent 221 in 28mm / 1:56. No luck. The Warlord version seems to have the wrong vision ports!

I wanted to add a little 2,8cm PzBsch to mine.

Didnt a company called SMA or Scale Model Accessories make one in 1/76? I bought a few and they were very nice kits! They have ceased trading but Matador models bought some of their masters. Maybe you could contact them?

That's interesting JF..

I was assuming they were only used as HQ/Radio vehicles but clearly they were used to replace 222s – and given they had 28mm guns added would have more AT capability than a 222 anyway….

Basic, plain 221s are probably always few in numbers though.

Here's an orbat for a recce squadron that arrived in North Africa, circa 1941:

Company HQ
6 x M/C, 6 x M/C w/Sidecar, 1 x Kfz.11, 1 x SdKfz.247, 1 x Kfz.15, 1 x SdKfz.263 & 4 x SdKfz.223
Heavy A/C Platoon – 3 x SdKfz.231, 3 x SdKfz.232
Light A/C Platoon – 4 x SdKfz.221, 4 x SdKfz.222
Light A/C Platoon – 6 x SdKfz.221

As you can see, there were a lot more Sdkfz 221 than 222 in this organisation.

OK – thanks for the info – pretty conclusive.