"Looking for rules recommendations " Topic

Hi,

I'm looking for a different rules set for ancient wargames as I've gone off the standard style of WAB, WaC, HC etc.

I'm looking for something a little more realistic, putting you in a similar position as a real ancient general where you can't move each unit exactly as you want each turn.

I'm imagining a system where you have much less micro management ability and make a broad plan before the battle begins which your troops stick to and making changes to account for your opponents plan is not automatic.

Can anyone recommend any rules sets which may fit this very vague description?

Armati places a lot of restrictions on movement and sort of follows the "make a plan and stick to it" idea. It's not my favorite ruleset but it does seem to do that well.

Hmm..dunno. 'Cause I think the general battle plan was discussed in counsel before the battle, so everyone had a general idea of the plan.

It would be interesting to have a rules set that allows much less control as the battle progresses.

Tactica does this, and so does DBA.

Agreed – Tactica might be your cup of tea.

Doug

Rally Round the King.

Here is a review. There's a historical add on with 160 armies in it.

link

Agree with Armati. Restricted movement after deployment (but not "you can't move because you didn't make an activation roll")

Some form of RPG with a Game Master feeding you information may be more what your after than pushing around pretty figurines.

Lost Battles?

Civitates Bellantes fits the bill. My current first choice for ancients.
link
pdf for only £5.00 GBP

Newbury fast Play Ancients.
>Ducks and covers…<

Hey! They are COMPLICATED!

Perhaps Pulse of Battle? This is a Piquet style game. Uncertainty abounds as to exactly what troops will do and when they will do it. Not entirely random and uncontrolled, but not under tight player control either.

Rally around the King uses the THW reaction system which I find gives a good sense of controlling troops who think and act for themselves.

The card driven system of Commands and Colors can help prevent micro managed plans, although I am not sure it does so in the way you are looking for.

Agree that Tactica or Armati might be what you are looking for. Also take a look at DBA 3.0 when it comes out. It has moved in the direction of increasing the importance of your initial plan and deployment, with less scope for complicated maneuvers as the two forces close. (It does this by increasing the movement if units, and decreasing the distance between the armies at deployment, which collectively mean combat starts on the second turn, instead of the fourth.)

I second Rally Round the King.

You won't even know exactly what forces your subordinates will bring with them, let alone what they will do on the tabletop!

Though I will admit that the Chain Reaction System takes some getting used to if you're used to games like Flames of War or even Warmaster.

Try the Piquet rules. There's the more classic version – Archon (where you will also need the Master Rules) or the new Pulse of Battle. The latter is less "customisable" or variable than Archon.

I third Rally Round the King.

I was looking for exactly the same thing myself and RRtK delivers what I wanted.

I would strongly recommend you give RRtK a go.

Best of luck

Armati works well, as has been stated here already. You certainly do need to craft a coherent plan beforehand.

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will check them out.

I've bought up RRtK and Armati but I can't seem to find Tactica anywhere though, is it out of print? If so, is there a PDF available?

I'd take a look at Phil Sabin's Lost Battles – that's a reconstruction of command and control by a professional military academic based on primary sources – it describes itself as a 'model' of warfare rather than a 'game'- and it gives an account of all the source material as well as rules of play.

link

Hi Bedgar
Civitates Bellantes is available as a PDF from my website and it is indeed designed to do much as you describe.
link
Simon

You could try DBMM, it fits well your description.

tagmata.it

Of the games I play regularly, Armati is closest to what you describe.

Phil

If you can ever get past the dozens and dozens of dubious troop descriptions, and the constant my-bound-your-bound accidents, not to mention the Barkerese, you might find DBMM fits the bill. I never could get past all that, after two years of trying.

Armati is a better-written rules set, and overall a better simulation. It has its issues (what rules don't) but I think the cost ($27-$30 all-in, vs about $150 USD+ for DBMM if you put in all the army lists) certainly render Armati the more economical choice as well.

Downside for Armati: terrain really isn't all that well thought out, there are problematic armies (true of all games) and it can feel fiddly.

Bedgar, Simon (Bigredbat) is probably too modest to promote the set he is developing (to the strongest), but if you like big battles, and ask him nicely, he might share a copy with you. The card system is annoyingly good at preventing you from doing exactly what you want with your army!

To add another voice to the general clamour I will naturally suggest Polemos SPQR link

To look at your criteria:

They are very different indeed to the standard model of Ancient Wargames rules (eg attempting to cover a ridiculously wide range of eras, cultures and geographical locations in one general set of rules with army choice decided by a points system).

A general's perspective is indeed made interesting by a limited range of decisions and often inadequate resources.

Micro management of troops is not possible. Once the starting gun sounds you are best to concentrate on the Big Picture.

A very different approach to Ancient wargaming but definitely worth a look.

Tactica is out of print, but you'd probably pick up 2nd hand copies.. there has been a 2nd ed in the works for years now, but it still hasn't been published.

I personally liked Tactica, but Armati is probably the better bet out of the two – Tactica requires big armies, the lists were designed for armies to fight their historical opponents, and by todays standards it is an extremely restrictive set of rules. Armati is a bit more more flexible in unit sizes, lists, and rules, but still stresses the importance of initial deployment and battleplan.

But theres lots of other good suggestions out there as well..

I, er, fourth? fifth? Rally Round the King for what you describe.

I confess though it took me a while to get my head round it, but it makes much more sense when you actually play it. I had the rules for months before I actually used them, because I didn't find the presentation all that clear, and I couldn't understand the enthusiasm of others. I now regret the lost time, and have had a huge amount of fun with them (and other THW sets).

Lost Battles is good to experiment with, and is also a very useful and convenient source of references for many battles of classical antiquity.

Try Justin Taylors Alea Iacta Est (he of Veni Vedi Vici shield transfers fame). Allows fast play and large battles and includes some interesting concepts. Originally designed for classical battles, it can be easily modified to suit your period or tastes.

I never was a big fan of Tactica. Troops seemed to crash into each other and the player had very little to do with outcome except roll a pile of dice.

Armati is a very well written game but it is in my opinion quite boring. The command limitations are so severe that once one has played with an army a few times the various command options are exhausted.

I play Impetus. First because it is fun. Second because it is a dynamic game that has almost unlimited variation. And third, where in Armati the rules limit the player in Impetus the same effect is created by encouraging the player to do certain things without limiting him to those choices. So for instance, after deployment it is possible to attempt to reorganize one's forces in the face of the enemy but the speed for the game makes it difficult to pull off. In Armati this is impossible to do.

Try Scutarii. There are a number of battle reports at
18clovehamhock.blogspot.com