Rhingyll | 05 Oct 2014 9:33 p.m. PST |
Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes a 40 pound gun in 25mm/28mm that I can use in a heavy artillery battery in the 2nd Afghan War (1879)? Doesn't have to be a perfect match. |
Green Tiger | 06 Oct 2014 3:25 a.m. PST |
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Vintage Wargaming | 06 Oct 2014 6:23 a.m. PST |
There was a Hinchliffe one in the late lamented 20mm range (it was in the set with the limber and two elephants) but don't know if they did it in 25mm |
IronDuke596 | 06 Oct 2014 9:55 a.m. PST |
There is a previous thread on the War of 1812 Board re a 32pdr that should satisfy your needs; TMP link |
Rhingyll | 06 Oct 2014 3:44 p.m. PST |
Ended up just repainting a heavy Napoleonic type gun carriages in cheap ceramcoat "rain gray" and adding big plastic gun barrels from some toy cannons I had. Not quite what I was wanting to do but already had the stuff and it is a big gun.
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Rhingyll | 06 Oct 2014 3:45 p.m. PST |
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Rhingyll | 06 Oct 2014 3:56 p.m. PST |
Only got one elephant to pull two guns. Need more.From the photos I have seen they have two elephants pulling one gun.
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Druzhina | 06 Oct 2014 9:59 p.m. PST |
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Rhingyll | 07 Oct 2014 9:37 a.m. PST |
Druzhina – Those are great reference pictures. Thanks very much!! |
The Virtual Armchair General | 07 Oct 2014 10:04 a.m. PST |
Gentlemen All! I'm afraid that there is a misunderstanding about the "40-pdr" gun used in India. It was NOT a black powder, MLSB! It was a rather modern breech loading rifle, though its prime mover was indeed still the elephant. The 20mm Hinchliffe model alluded to is the weapon you want, though somewhat undersized for current 28mm figures, even if you could find one. The guns in the photos here are lovely, but as anachronistic as Chain Guns would be. Perhaps someone else can direct us to the right model from a current manufacturer? TVAG |
Rhingyll | 07 Oct 2014 10:23 a.m. PST |
TVAG – Do you know of any reference pictures that show exactly what the Breech Loader looks like? I feel if I had a clear photo I could somehow put together a reasonable copy of one out of spare parts and imagination.I have searched the internet but mostly what I have found are naval guns. |
The Virtual Armchair General | 08 Oct 2014 3:16 p.m. PST |
Rhingyll! If I'm attaching correctly, here are some shots of models and the real McCoy that may be of help to you.
If these don't come through, PM me and I'll send them to you via your E-mail address. TVAG |
Mad Guru | 08 Oct 2014 4:08 p.m. PST |
Here's a slightly obscured photo of a 40lb. British breechloader…
The biggest difference is the single block trail rather than the old-fashioned double-bracket style. I recently came across a photo showing some double-bracket guns in Afghan service in 1879 Kabul, so you could always assign those nice looking vintage heavy artillery pieces of yours to the opposition! |
Mad Guru | 08 Oct 2014 10:24 p.m. PST |
Here's a photo I just scanned from T.A. Heathcote's "The Indian Army, 1822-1922," showing another 40-pounder, around the time of the Second Afghan War, being drawn not by elephants but bullucks -- a lot of them…
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John Watts | 14 Oct 2014 3:29 a.m. PST |
I'm not convinced by TVAG's statement that the heavy batteries used only the 40pr Armstrong breechloader in Afghanistan – and the sarky `Chain gun' comment was hardly necessary. Armstrong guns were in use in the 1860s, but the powers that be were not convinced by their performance in China and New Zealand, and in 1872 the Royal Artillery began to adopt RMLs, with the heavy batteries getting the 40pr. Robson, in `The Road to Kabul' states that: `The heavy batteries deployed a mixture of rifles, muzzle- or breech-loading 40-pounders, and 6.3in or 8in smooth-bore, muzzle-loading howitzers.' Given that of the horse and field batteries, 50 were equipped with 9pr RMLs and only 8 with 9pr or 12pr Armstrong RBLs, it seems reasonable that the majority of the heavy batteries would also have made the transition to RMLs. Anyway, the RML is going to be much easier to scratchbuild, having a much smoother, less `bumpy' barrel than the RBL, and also having a simple rounded breech end and cascabel. It also lacks the elaborate screw handles of the Armstrong. The photograph from Mad Guru is of the RML – long, smooth barrel. You can find good plans of both by googling. |
Rhingyll | 14 Oct 2014 5:58 a.m. PST |
John Watts – Thanks for the input.I have been doing some reading and I think that at the battle of Kandahar (Baba Wali) 40 pound RBL were used. They may have been pulled by oxen though instead of elephants as I had thought. I have never scratch built a cannon before but I think I am going to give a shot at the RBL using a carriage I have from a Perry Miniatures 24 pound ACW gun. It looks close enough from what I can tell to match up okay. The barrel and screw handles as you have mentioned will be a challenge but somehow I hope to figure out something that looks about right from a distance. |
John Watts | 14 Oct 2014 9:01 a.m. PST |
Good on you. The best scale drawing I've found on the net is at: link You should be able to cannibalize the screw breech from some ACW Armstrong – same system. Good luck – I'm intending to do a 40pr RML battery in 15mm from scratch. |
Rhingyll | 17 Oct 2014 10:34 a.m. PST |
In summary from the information everyone has supplied this is what the 40 pound BLR would have looked like in 1879-1880 Afghanistan:
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Lion in the Stars | 17 Oct 2014 1:23 p.m. PST |
Huh, looks like I will need some more nellies for my 15mm forces, I only have 3 per gun and they're pulling 5.4" howitzers. Thanks for all the pictures, all, this will help a lot in detailing. Plus I always wanted to knock down some buildings with elephants. |
Rhingyll | 01 Nov 2014 6:09 p.m. PST |
Been working on building a better 40 pound Breech Loading Rifle. Thus far I have used parts from some 54mm screw guns I had, as well as assorted overlapping brass tubes and two 24 pound ACW carriages from Perry. I am okay with what i have done so far except I need to still get the front portion of the barrel looking more like the real thing.The last section at the end of the barrel is too short. Also I have never used what they call "green stuff" before but was thinking about using it smooth out the barrel transitions as it changes diameter along its length.I am tired of working on it now so will pick up again in a couple of weeks and refine it some more. Pictures of what has been done thus far follow:
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Rhingyll | 01 Nov 2014 6:09 p.m. PST |
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Rhingyll | 01 Nov 2014 6:10 p.m. PST |
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Rhingyll | 01 Nov 2014 8:48 p.m. PST |
Couldn't leave the barrel dimensions the way I had them and get a good night's sleep.So cut off the front of the barrel, then used brass tubing (one fitting into the other) to recreate a new one. I think this matches the real 40 pound gun barrel better. Tomorrow just some filing and touch-up paintwork and I am going to say it is good to go.
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Eclaireur | 02 Nov 2014 2:28 a.m. PST |
That's looking really excellent Rhingyll! I'd been thinking of trying to persuade one of the manufacturers to do one! EC |
Rhingyll | 02 Nov 2014 8:30 a.m. PST |
Test firing the gun using some Foundry Boer War gunners. Need to change flock on the figures for Afghanistan though.
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John Watts | 03 Nov 2014 4:17 a.m. PST |
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SgtGuinness | 22 Feb 2015 5:53 a.m. PST |
Excellent representation Rhingyll! Cheers, JB |