"T55 vs M1 flank armour?" Topic

So we have a current model M1 Abrams with all the upgrades and snazzy stuff that's been added since it's introduction.

As it's rolling along, trying to find a Denny's for breakfast, a T55 pops out of a side alley and hits it right in the side of the hull. Direct hit, perfect angle, short range.

T55 is fitted with whatever passes for the best round you can fire out of one of those things.

What happens?

Lol, like the Denny's comment… bang dead M1, because didn't some RPG's hit in the side and ko vehicle?

The latest RPGs have tandem warheads. They may be more effective than a kinetic round.

Well, RPG29 have penetrated both Challenger and Abrams though whether they do so reliably or on a lucky shot is not as well known.

The question is a HEAT round from a T55 though.

100mm D10 APDSU round would penetrate per Twilight 2.2K.

Then the T55 Mongolian crew will loot Denny's.

Not sure it will penetrate , T55 more likely hoping to blow off a track and some wheels …

I thought the only RPG casualty was a hit to decking on top of the engine….. ?

Had the T55 crew already eaten at Denny's, or not?

Heat round will not penetrate the tank body or turret. Could blow the tracks. An APSFDS would probably penetrate.

The RPG rounds that penetrate were tandem warhead designs specifically designed to penetrate spaced laminate and several hundred have hit M1A2 tanks with only a couple penetration that I know of.

Depends where on the side it hit. The armor over critical areas is stronger. Most likely, the shot will penetrate the side skirts and damage the track, which will tick off the M1 crew. And they have a 120 mm gun to vent their spleen with.

There is always a chance that a crew could bail out even if the tank was OK. Perhaps that is very unlikely for trained US crews.

I spoke with a WW2 German AT gunner who took out a T34 with a 37mm gun. The T34 crew abandoned their tank. He thought that they panicked. He passed out from injuries shortly after the Soviets ran for it, so he didn't have a chance to assess damage on the T34. The other Germans had, sensibly, run for it already.

He was proud to have tweaked the gun mechanism to increase the rate of fire. I have read elsewhere that this made the gun jam on occasion. He was lucky.

He did a great deal for the allied war effort. Most of his war stories consisted of discussion of things he knicked from the German army and sold on the black market.

Being hit in the side by a sabot round is not something any tank crew can shrug off, not even an M1.

a) they've been hit in the side
b) it was a sabot round, not an RPG, or a LAW or random small arms fire
c) they've been hit in the side

time to pop smoke and get the hell out of dodge.

Sometimes I wonder if the names for tank ammunition is just made by stringing together random letters, with "AP" somewhere in the mix.

"APHJFFYRSSDS" rounds! Yeah, it's the next big thing!

I'd go with what Cold Steel said … he being a former US ARMY tanker … And yes, Chortle

There is always a chance that a crew could bail out even if the tank was OK. Perhaps that is very unlikely for trained US crews.

I'm sure both Cold Steel and I'd agree on that …

A US crew bailing out of an M60 series? In a heartbeat. Been there, done that. Twice.

Bailing out of an M1? Very unlikely. The M1 was designed with crew survivability a priority, even after a hit that "killed" the tank. Crews have walked away from tanks that had their turret ammo racks cook off.

Cold – if you don't mind me asking, what were the conditions where you bailed out?

Considering that back in Bosnia the M1 tankers were getting warning about WW2 vintage 85 and 88mm AA guns?

I'm pretty sure that a 100mm side shot on the Abrams at that range would penetrate and take out the power pack. Unfortunately for the T55, there's a good bit of solid steel between the power pack and the crew space, so the crew will be able to turn the turret and return the favor.

Weasel, the 1st was at Ft. Knox due to an electrical fire in the engine compartment igniting oil spilt in the hull. The 2d time the tank had "help" catching fire and was not a day of fond memories.

What happens?

TC on the M1 gets ticked
GUNNER! SABOT! TANK!

T55 goes through depleted Uranium disassemby

M1 TC has to call for Maintenance

Given the conditions you're setting it seems the real question you are asking is if there's any way possible that a T55 firing the latest ammunition could hit and kill an M1?

The answer is absolutely yes.

Are those conditions easy to achieve? Not if the M1 crew is awake.

The question is probably more "what is the probably result on the flank". Though they might always roll a double 1 :)

I think I have to agree with most folks here. Is it possible? Perhaps. Is it likely, probably not. The t-55 is armed with a DT-10 100mm with does have an APFSDS round. Not sure if it would be enough though. I've read where M1's took multiple hits from Iraqi "lions of Babylon" (aka local T-72 variant) which has a 125mm and survive unscathed. Not to mention reports of friendly fire from other M1's using the M829A1 and survive. I just don't think then DT-10 has the oomph needed. Now if it were engaging at range with a 9K116-1 Bastion (9M117M2 Boltok variant, gun fired AT missile) and shooting at its flank then maybe. But I honestly think a mobility kill is the best that can be hoped for. Then the Abrams swings the 120mm around for the kill. The T-55 would be better off pulling back, going hull down, and calling in tac air. Maybe a Su-25 with some thing massive like a AS-14 Kedge ASM. Oh and yeah, I've been over thinking it. Had some spare time today. :)

The Lions of Babylon alas fired the sabot of homemade inexactitude. I'd think an M1 crew hit in the flank would be thinking. Christ, they're on our flanks, how the hell did they get there? Reverse? Don't forget, a clever enemy might have forces on either side, traversing your turret to deal with one threat, leaves it's rear potentially exposed to another threat.

If it's a lone T-55, the question would be, how did it's commander squeeze his large iron testicles through the hatch!

I think I have to agree with most folks here. Is it possible? Perhaps. Is it likely, probably not. The t-55 is armed with a DT-10 100mm with does have an APFSDS round. Not sure if it would be enough though.

I think it would be, for anything short of the full TUSK II kit, and even then I'd be inclined to give the APFSDS round a good chance. The TUSK kit is more for man-portable AT weapons, which are all HEAT rounds.

I've read where M1's took multiple hits from Iraqi "lions of Babylon" (aka local T-72 variant) which has a 125mm and survive unscathed.

Were any of those 125mm hits flank shots at point-blank range?

If it's a lone T-55, the question would be, how did it's commander squeeze his large iron testicles through the hatch!

They'd have to be brass, so they could be swaged down to a small enough diameter to pass through the hatch!

Going by memory (yeah I know possibly sketchy) definitely flank shots. Ranges I'm not sure of exactly. I remember it being said as short. But what the article considers short in meters? Not sure.

Well, if the commander is that gung-ho, maybe he'd be better off just running over with his Makarov and taking on the tank himself. That T55 is just slowing him down :)

The armor on the Abrams is primarily designed to deal with incoming fire from the frontal arc (ca 60 degrees), and to take hits even to sidearmor from this arc.
The back sidearmor is by necessity not as protected, the Abrams is a heavy monster as is. This is why we train tankers to behave a certain way, and doctrine is not a small component of western victories.

While only 100mm the T-55 is still equipped with a tank gun, and should definetly be considered a threat, at least considering mobility/mission kills.

Oh, one thing that I haven't seen addressed:

Well, RPG29 have penetrated both Challenger and Abrams though whether they do so reliably or on a lucky shot is not as well known.

The shot that the US first thought was an RPG29 (side shot, HEAT jet went clear through the Abrams sideways but missed anything critical) could have been a 'mere' RPG7 because there apparently WAS a gap in the protection where that particular round hit. The point of impact was IIRC just below the skirt and above/between the road wheels, so the RPG hit the side of the chassis and essentially missed the overwhelming majority of the armor.

Dunno about the Chally's hit.