Chortle | 25 Sep 2014 4:24 a.m. PST |
This is the benchmark of Utter Drivel. All other posts will be measured by it for their drivility. Prepared to be humbled in your feeble efforts to type drivel! A nice looking girl talks about the scandal: YouTube link People who write reviews of computer games are disseminating a "Cultural Marxist" message (men = bad in this case). Of course the main audience for computer games, and most of the people who make them, are men. Yet review apparachnicks feel that their duty is to bang on about sexism in gaming. A scandal broke when a young woman game creator was discovered to have slept with reviewers to get good reviews. In response to the scandal, game reviewers closed ranks to declare "the death of the gamer" in a dozen or more articles which came out virtually simultaneously – and to blame nasty, sexist, men for the scaldal. In a very strange turn of events, discussion about this controversy has been censored from popular sites. This is hardly credible. But, as they say, life can be stranger than fiction. Here is a short discussion about it on reddit link I only play "Scourge of War", which is an ACW game (with excellent Napoleonic "mods"). I suppose I will have to get used to hearing that various of the Civil War Generals were awful sexists and that women faced a glass ceiling in both armies during the civil war. Explaining "Cultural Marxism" YouTube link |
KTravlos | 25 Sep 2014 5:08 a.m. PST |
Ehm, if you think that many games are not sexist, you are not playing enough games. And yes, she should not had sleeped with the reviewers. Does not change the fact that they should not have slept with her. It is both people fault, but the reviewers are twice worse for breaking rules of both social and professional conduct. Of course for certain people it is always the girls fault. You want to call that Cutlural Marxism? Fine. Call it smurftastic abstiantionism. Does not change the facts. Nobody cares about our wargames, because they do not affect a large part of the population. And yes 19th century society was sexist. |
20thmaine | 25 Sep 2014 6:17 a.m. PST |
Society in the 21st century is still sexist – the majority of women world wide are not treated equally. Not talking about computer games – talking about access to education, access to equal medical treatment, freedom of expression, freedom of employment. Things are hardly better in "modern nations". In the UK only 23% of judges are women. Only 22% of UK MPs are women. Only 14% of University vice-chancellors are women. Only 35% of the senior civil service positions are filled by women. Equality of employment is moving in the right direction, but it's painfully slow. |
KTravlos | 25 Sep 2014 6:25 a.m. PST |
Oh I did not say that the 21st century is not sexist. But progress is progress. The 19th century probably was less sexist than the 17th (the 18thcentury in Europe is just weird :p) |
Chortle | 25 Sep 2014 7:44 a.m. PST |
1. What is the birth rate likely to be when "progress" brings the number of women Judges, MPs, VCs and civil servants to parity? 2. How will Sharia law impact "equality"? |
20thmaine | 25 Sep 2014 7:51 a.m. PST |
A raised educational status and improved healthcare generally also lowers the birth rate. Due to the combination of improved opportunities and lower infant mortality rates. |
The Tin Dictator | 25 Sep 2014 8:04 a.m. PST |
I haven't played a video game in years. So, I must have missed something. What's wrong with a video game being sexist? It's what sells in the free market. If you don't like it, don't play it. Is there no freedom of expression left in this new PC world? As for the game designer who sleeps with the reviewers, well that's just good marketing. Hopefully she was cute. The reviewers are the dishonest ones. |
M1Fanboy | 25 Sep 2014 8:07 a.m. PST |
As far as I am concerned, I am of two minds on the subject. I have played video games in the past, and yes, have seen some stuff that frankly, a bit of growing up would fix when I play with other gamers online. But that's the point, there's a lot of this that can be attributed to folks needing a swift kick in the arse. But, that said? Two wrongs sure as hell don't make a right. These SJWs (Social Justice Warriors) are out to "childproof" the world, and yeah, they're now doing it to a billion dollar industry because honestly, they smell money. Thank god miniature wargaming isn't making those dollars, we'd be up to our eyeballs in these jerks. Me, it's made me more wary about talking about my hobby to those who aren't IN the hobby. And then there are some of those in the RPG side of the hobby where all I want to say to them is? "Are you insane? PC is the problem and we don't need it mucking up the hobby, any more than we need a bunch of jerks who ought to be asked if their sheet is at the dry cleaners" Why? Because there are some in the RPG/LARP side who are not only embracing this PC/Cultural Marxist ideal, but downright leading the charge. To me, this is no better than those they accuse. Trust me, I've seen the Youtube vids and Facebook posts. In short, GamerGate is a problem, one that rightly or wrongly, we in the hobby ought to keep an eye on. |
Weasel | 25 Sep 2014 8:11 a.m. PST |
Has anyone actually /seen/ said reviews? edit: It's worth noting that neither side has anything of value for this discussion. The tumblr crowd doesn't give a about video games and the screaming nerd-mob doesn't give a about journalism. You'll forgive me for not believing that the same crowd that sent death threats to Bioware writers and lose their minds when a gun in Call of Duty gets nerfed are suddenly paragons of free speech. It's about controlling their "domain" and gamers have figured out how to do so by being shrill and hysterical. It's like an overgrown multi-headed baby. |
CaseyNOVA | 25 Sep 2014 8:20 a.m. PST |
Chortle, your take on it is both factually wrong and loaded with a lot of ugliness. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the SJW and white knight types are pretty dumb. But the dudes who kept going on and on about #GamerGate weren't doing it for some high and mighty ethical position, they're doing it because they're terrible dudes who hate it that women won't sleep with them. Chortle, you seem to think that it is more likely that there is a coordinated effort by people to smear well meaning 4Chan dudes, than these dudes just being really crappy. Which is fine, but it says a lot about you. None of it good. As with most things, people complaining about political correctness are much more obnoxious and dumb than any actual political correctness. Some dudes need to get better medication to treat their low T. |
John the Greater | 25 Sep 2014 8:59 a.m. PST |
I'm not a video game person myself, and watching #gamergate play itself out confirms my lack of desire for participation. One interesting aspect of this is that the "discovery" that a game designer was sleeping with reviewers turns out to have been slander put out on the web by her ex-boyfriend. It is great to know that crazy stalking ex's enjoy a world-wide audience. I know we all feel better with that information, don't we? |
Chortle | 25 Sep 2014 9:58 a.m. PST |
Feminist Bullies Tearing the Video Game Industry Apart: "It's easy to mock video gamers as dorky loners in yellowing underpants. Indeed, in previous columns, I've done it myself. Occasionally at length. But, the more you learn about the latest scandal in the games industry, the more you start to sympathise with the frustrated male stereotype. Because an army of sociopathic feminist programmers and campaigners, abetted by achingly politically correct American tech bloggers, are terrorising the entire community – lying, bullying and manipulating their way around the internet for profit and attention." link We have seen journalists operate in packs elsewhere. Big Media "Journalists" Exposed in Secret Progressive Network: "Does it ever seem like many American self-styled "journalists" in the establishment media are parroting talking points from the same "progressive" script? It is probably because they are. The watchdog group Media Trackers recently announced that it had discovered a secret network of more than 1,000 radical Big Government activists that includes more than a few prominent individuals masquerading as objective news reporters at major press outlets. Lobbyists, fringe political activists, climate alarmists, Democrat Party operatives, and Big Labor are also all represented in the group, which has as its declared mission to create a "more coordinated" movement for leftists to take over America." link turns out to have been slander put out on the web by… It would be slander if it were false. This wasn't a significant part of the story. It was "sexed up" to derail a discussion about unethical collusion between reviewers and developers (there was more than one instance), and later to distract from the bizarre PC agenda which reviewers are pushing. It turns out to have been an effective tactic because most people can't think past this. |
CaseyNOVA | 25 Sep 2014 10:16 a.m. PST |
Oh, Chortle. Get your T levels checked out, bro. You make it sound like Zoe Quinn cynically slept with people just for good reviews for an indy game no one played. I think one of the five guys her ex boyfriend caught her sleeping with was a gamer "journalist". Jumping to the conclusion that she's some sort of terrible harlot trying to use sex for fame is just dumb and naive. Don't be dumb and naive. Also, you literally think this statement is true and have no problem copy and pasting it as though it is: "Because an army of sociopathic feminist programmers and campaigners, abetted by achingly politically correct American tech bloggers, are terrorising the entire community – lying, bullying and manipulating their way around the internet for profit and attention." That's hilllllllarious. It's way easier to believe that mean women who can't have any fun are ruining video games than it is to believe that lots of crappy dudes harass women online. That's a pretty sad world you live in. But, seriously, go to the doctor and get your T levels checked out. They're probably shockingly low and get in the way of you thinking about this stuff in a reasonable way. |
Weasel | 25 Sep 2014 10:31 a.m. PST |
If video games were controlled by feminists, go ahead and explain the Dead or Alive series.. or God of War..or Gears of war.. or the neverending stream of grey, scripted corridor military shooters with big manly dudes. All part of the communist plot no doubt.
If you cared about journalistic integrity, Stop trying to control journalism. Stop trying to control what journalists are permitted to talk about.
But that won't happen, will it? This isn't about "integrity", it's about lashing out because there's a risk of the world not catering 100% to the same old man demographic and now, the barbarians are at the gates. Throw in some talk about "Progressives" and "feminists" to rally the usual suspects and we have a crusade. Yell, shriek and cry loud enough. Here's the thing: Anyone who has raised a kid knows that when kids throw a temper tantrum, you don't give them what they want. You say "no" and go home, without buying any candy. If you want your own journalism, without "feminism" and "progressives" then start your own. You have all the right in the world to spout your opinions. You have NO right to dictate what another person must write about. So go on. Start your game review site. Show us how to do it better. |
CaseyNOVA | 25 Sep 2014 10:47 a.m. PST |
Weasel is right, he's also nicer at wording it than I could be. It's also not a coincidence that Chortle thinks there's a huge conspiracy of women gamers keeping white men down and that there are communists EVERYWHERE ramming big government down the throats of heroic white John Galts. |
M1Fanboy | 25 Sep 2014 11:23 a.m. PST |
@Weasel, don't agree with everything you said, but you say it well, sir. @CaseyNOVA, I really think making comments about people's T levels is little more than an ad hominem attack on a person without cause. You may not agree with a thing Chortle says. I don't agree with everything he says either, but I'd reign in the comments about people's testosterone. |
MH Dee | 25 Sep 2014 11:23 a.m. PST |
It always makes me smirk when far-right types bang on loudly about the alleged perils of this 'PC' thing that is, according to them, somehow restricting what they can say. Whilst saying whatever daft paranoid sexist, racist rants they wish. Seriously, posting a load of offensive tripe and *then* claiming the PC Thought Police don't allow it doesn't work. Surely if Political Correctness existed in the way these folk claim we wouldn't hear their rantings? |
RavenscraftCybernetics | 25 Sep 2014 11:37 a.m. PST |
are there any nude pics of her on teh interwebs? |
Weasel | 25 Sep 2014 11:57 a.m. PST |
Casey and M1 – thank you. |
KTravlos | 25 Sep 2014 12:39 p.m. PST |
Most of the people deploring sexism in games, do not want to ban it. I say some games are sexist. I do not want to ban them. But I will not stop from calling sexist just to mollify the anti-PC prejudices of some. Games were you have sex women who throw themselves at you because you beat a bunch of people up are sexist, or just entered a bar. Games where women warriors go around in chain bikinis, are sexist. Yes I have enjoyed some of those. Does not change the fact they are sexist. Just means I have sexist tendencies. So yeah, they are sexist. And yeah I can enjoy some to a point. But this aint a over-educated 33 year old guy. This is about 16 and 17 and 18 year olds. |
StoneMtnMinis | 25 Sep 2014 1:27 p.m. PST |
The real issue that is being "hidden" is the abuse and threats that women who game or work in game development are subjected to by these troglodytes. These women, and their families, are being threatened with rape and murder. Their addresses and phone #'s are being posted so these pervs can harass them and make additional threats. Some of the threats are so extreme and detailed that they have been reported to various police departments which have referred them to the FBI for follow-up. As for the sex for reviews, that is made-up from whole cloth and is a straw man to cover their misogynistic attitudes to women. The woman in question developed a game for dealing with depression(and it is a free game). The reviewer in question never reviewed her game. The accusation comes from her ex-boyfriend who was trying to cause her grief for dumping him. It is not about "journalistic integrity" but the way women are shown and treated(tortured) in many video games aimed at adolescent males. |
The Tin Dictator | 25 Sep 2014 1:44 p.m. PST |
That game is totally sexist and exploits women !! Really? Let me see… |
Greenfield Games | 25 Sep 2014 2:04 p.m. PST |
Much like Tic Tac Toe and Global Nuclear War, the only way to win #GamerGate discussions is not to play. Chortle was correct that his post was utter drivel. Don't try to dig further. |
snodipous | 25 Sep 2014 2:54 p.m. PST |
"Trawl through the #gamergate tag -- and I really must urge you never to do so under any circumstances -- and you'll find huge a current of complaints about "Social justice warriors." Gaters often rail against the evil influence of these people complaining about discrimination. No, there isn't a comma missing after "people." A large vein of gater traffic is effectively railing for discrimination. Because veins are what carry organic waste to be filtered out. It's always hilarious to hear SJW used as an insult. "Social justice warrior" is the basic plot of most '80s action shows and cartoons. Arriving in places and fighting against discrimination? The A-Team were social justice warriors. It's practically a synonym for Knight Rider. Insulting someone for respecting other people is like insulting them for ing -- the fact you don't do it has way more to do with why you're so upset all the time. When you use "wants equality" as an insult, you're the bad guy. Look around: are you conforming to a movement with a large group of other people? Do you wait for a target and then pile on hoping that sheer numbers will wear them down? Are you wearing some kind of helmet which interferes with your ability to aim lasers at rebels?" link |
snodipous | 25 Sep 2014 2:59 p.m. PST |
A scandal broke when a young woman game creator was discovered to have slept with reviewers to get good reviews. In response to the scandal, game reviewers closed ranks to declare "the death of the gamer" in a dozen or more articles which came out virtually simultaneously – and to blame nasty, sexist, men for the scaldal. In a very strange turn of events, discussion about this controversy has been censored from popular sites. A woman (well, more than one – read about Anita Sarkeesian, who has faced [literally] insane backlash over her critiques of video games and video game culture) is hounded from her home by rape and death threats, but let's not accuse the people involved of sexism! |
Last Hussar | 26 Sep 2014 5:22 p.m. PST |
Chortle – you are showing the extreme end of a common reaction, which I have seen on TMP: "A man was called sexist – its feminazis trying to take over the world." No matter how 'immoral' this woman was, the reaction to her supposed crimes was completely over the top. She is accused as follows (these are the 'worst case' accusations) 1)She had sex with men while in a relationship- these men were in a position to give positive reviews on her products. 2) She let down a charity. 1) Sex. Well yeah, she cheated on her boyfriend. Its not right but it happens. Would the levels of hate be the same if it was a man? Do you have a friend or colleague who's marriage broke down after he cheated? Did he get death threats from complete strangers. How would you view his ex if she broke the news with a 10,000 word essay published on the internet? She is a small indy game publisher, the reviewers in question don't deal with her games – their publishers want 95% ratings for the clone-again games that advertise in their magazines/websites. She's in the game industry. She is in a minority of women, and she is moving in circles with in the industry. Police officers who have affairs have them with police officers. Actors have them with actors. You tend to wind up with the people who move in the same circles you do- especially industries that involve time away from home a lot. Game producers put pressure on the Games media – bad reviews can mean loss of advertising. Was she any more immoral than a supermarket THAT CHARGES SUPPLIERS FOR THE BEST SHELF SPACE. No payment – well your product ends up on the bottom shelf (For those in the UK – this was the accounting error that Tesco's made- the missing £250.00 GBPm is counting payments not yet made for the best shelf space). The second accusation is that she promised to do something for a charity, then cried off. Apparently there is a valid reason according to her supporters. But even if there wasn't would a man receive this level of hate? She has had constant abuse, plus threats of rape and violence. "I hope you get raped to death" is hardly coherent argument. Her dad has been threatened by someone who managed to track down his phone number. This isn't uncommon. A woman who campaigned to have Jane Austen on the £10.00 GBP, after the Bank of England had made a decision that would mean no note would have the face of an historical woman on received death theats: link Maybe these quotes from The Mirror link One user wrote: "this Perez one just needs a good smashing up the * and she'll be fine." Another said: "Wouldn't mind tying this b**** to my stove. Hey sweetheart, give me a shout when you're ready to be put in your place." Think of your favourite actor. If he had been sleeping with female reviewers, would he deserve violent abuse?
Or try this. I'm guessing your straight (95% – probably higher in TMP). Imagine every day on the way home you walked past a gay bar, where the patrons made disgusting comments about you, describing how they'd make a real man out of you. If you complained would you be a Hetro-nazi? |