"Advance the Colors - HMGS Great Lakes - A Review" Topic

Well, I attended my first ATC at the museum location. My thoughts:

Parking lot is close to the main entrance and plenty of parking to go around.

The museum facility is a real treat. Nice building, good restrooms, and a small cafe attached.

The museum displays are nice and worth visiting.

The entrance area where the registration and two games are held is high traffic, but also very well lit and a prime gaming spot.

The main area for gaming is way too dark and far too loud and too small for any growth. I was there Friday evening, so not at the height of attendance, and the noise level was terrible. Also, the black walls do not help. Some great looking games were "lost" in the murkiness of the room. Donate money to the museum to increase the wattage in their ceiling lights and buy more of the noise reducing panels. The money Great Lakes is making by having such a cheap location could be used to help support the museum by doing those two things.

The dealer area is on the first floor, the main gaming on the second floor. A bit of a hassle, but not bad. The dealer room mix was "interesting." For a miniatures convention, little could be found in actual miniatures. I-94 was there in all their glory, so that helped a lot, and if you wanted books or boardgames, you certainly would be happy. I bought two 1/100 scale snap together tanks…that was it for me, but then again I am at the point of my life where I am not buying as much. The dealer selling knitted clothing items had NO place at minis con.

The area slotted for DBM or FOW gaming should have been given to the other gamers and those tourneys should be held upstairs in the main gaming area. They are huge space wasters – the space taken for two players in those aforementioned tourneys could have be used for a six player game. Plus it would put the main gaming closer to the dealers.

I did not receive a convention brochure nor did I see any. Good to have to see what games are being played and what dealers are there.

Gaming slots are a terrible idea. Gamers who arrive at 3pm on Friday would have to wait FOUR HOURS to get into a 7pm game. Yes, it IS more work scheduling games at differing start times, but it also sucks for gamers to have to wait around forever to game if they can't make the 2pm sessions on Friday.

Friday seemed to be decently attended for a Friday at ATC, but there were a lot of faces I expected to see that were not there. If the dealer area is free for dealers (really?), perhaps give anyone who arrives Friday before 4pm a reduced Friday and/or weekend admission. If more gamers are there Friday early, then more dealers are likely to get motivated to get there when the con starts and not have so many empty dealer tables at 6pm on Friday eve.

Overall, a fun time as I got to see some faces I had not seen in years, and the folks who are working the con have got their act together in terms of how smoothly everything runs. But some tweaks could really make the con an improvement over existing circumstances, and encourage more attendance in future years.

Overall, a lot of your concerns mirror mine. Good organizers, good games, good people, coupled with horrible acoustics and lighting.

Nice report
Pics would have been nice
Clif

There are a lot of pictures of games on the HMGS-GL Facebook group.

I attended AtC several times as a vendor. As it was local (I could drive home and sleep in my own bed) it was worth it – I did pay for tables but had no other real costs, other than gas and time. I would never travel to that show because:

1) Based on my sales over three years (and I brought exclusively miniatures, terrain and paint) I would never break even if I had to pay for a hotel and meals and extensive gas money.

2) Having the dealer room far from the gaming hall is an absolute killer. When the game room faces the vendor hall I'd guess 25% of my sales come during gaming time. At AtC during game slots no one is in the vendor hall. Bring a book.

3) The tournaments had spread and were actually in another building (DBA and FoW IIRC, were across the alley). I always had lots of tournament players come shopping as I was packing up on Sunday because they were in the tournament room the whole show.

4) I know other dealers I have spoken with that have tried the show say they don't sell enough to make it worthwhile. So it becomes a chicken and egg thing. Too few gamers means no vendors, no vendors means less of a draw, so fewer gamers.

And I am happy to support shows. I attended CincyCon as a vendor for 3 years. It was close to home then, and the organizers didn't charge me. They told me I probably wouldn't sell anything but asked me to show up to help build the con. I did, was happy to do so, never sold a dime, but the show is now fairly large and doing well. I plan to go as a GM next year.

So yes, generally good games, but terrible facility for the purpose. But cheap, and close to home for the organizers.

Mark "Extra Crispy" Severin
Scale Creep Miniatures

Was there myself,Mark. Tried some games I hadn't played before (namely Wings Of Glory,Check Your 6 and a Trench Wars scenario,also got to kibitz Sunday's FoW tournament)Bought some Napoleonics in anticipation of a future Grand Armee game(am rebasing stands as able). Attendance was down a bit,but ATC still is holding it's own. Looking forward to seeing you there next time. CincyCon is moving,BTW,to Hamilton,OH first weekend of May 2015,to the Butler Co. Fairgrounds.

I think that ATC was better when it was at the Holiday Inn? The move to the museum was ok I guess. Major issues with lighting and sound of course. The only con I go to these days is Cincycon.

Seems like a recurring theme here. Too noisy, too dark in the main gaming area, not enough gamers (and little room to grow)…I hope the organizers are listening.

thacman – I have always liked cons at hotels. I was part of the crew who started ATC in downtown Dayton, then we moved to the Holiday Inn on the south side of town…they jacked the rates on us, so we moved it to the Holiday Inn at Springfield, which was probably the best location. Right off I-70, lots of food choices, plenty of gaming area, and well lit. Not sure why ATC was moved to the museum, although I am guessing economics (but we always made money running ATC at hotels). I hope they will either take steps to improve the conditions at the museum, or move it back to the hotel. I foresee ATC dying if they cannot grow attendance and dealers do not show.

Mark – I had forgotten to make my point about gaming slots – thanks for pointing it out…gaming slots KILL the dealer room. Need to have games starting and ending at various times to keep a flow going.

I also agree with the comments made here. Funny thing is its been this way for more than 5 years and I have heard these same complaints. I don't know if HMGS-GL doesn't listen or are set in their ways, I do know other venues have been offered and nothing has come of them don't know why.

Remember when cons had an open games area, in the 70s? Bring stuff and get some mates to play. I miss that sense of spontaneous enthusiasm. Now you have to reserve a time, the tables, and some folks may find that three or four games are something they wanted to try ( a new period) but your locked into a slot like a class schedule. My opinions only

?? It seems every con I've been to has loads of empty tables just begging for a spontaneous game….of course you have to have brought all your stuff with you then….

My wife and I attended Friday and Saturday; we each played in 3 games and we had a great time. However, I must agree with many of your comments, Darryl, especially about the noise level in the main gaming area. My wife had never been to this venue before, and she specifically mentioned how loud it was. Even so, I live relatively close to Springfield so I normally attend every year. It's always good to see friends that I usually only see at the local events.

Cons I attend often have more games than players. GMs have to hustle to round up a quorum, and some events are cancelled due to lack of sign-ups – hence the empty tables.

I guess it's a good problem to have. Maybe it's partly a problem of too many events all starting at the same time, and none in-between to sign up late-comers and walk-ins. Pick-up games should be short and simple, not 5-hour grand productions.

I don't have the energy to play that I did 20 years ago. A couple of events in a day are all I can handle. I'll hang around an interesting event and kibitz, but I'll be yawning, and I may need to grab a nap before I can drive home.

I hear that, zippy! We played two games on Friday and got home around 12:30am. Went back on Saturday morning for a 9:00am game; it lasted until almost 2:00pm. We were completely wiped out after that and went home early. It's hell getting old!

Geez…I feel a little better. I didn't get home until 12:45 am on Saturday morning. But I had a longer drive home than you did Scott. I had to be at another event at 9:30 am too.

I came home, worked around the house, the played Rebel Raiders on the high seas until 12:30 in the morning.

I didn't see much of Sunday morning – I slept in REALLY late.

It was good to see everyone at ATC – the show just flies by.

The concerns about the site are well-founded. I ran my "Iron Fleet" game in the big hall a few years ago and the acoustics are pretty bad. That said, after a few turns I didn't notice the background buzz too much. They probably should swap the game locations once in a while. As for the location, my brothers and I used to stay across the street and that made life real easy.
I've been on the Drums staff since day one, way back in 2000. I can remember sitting in the bar at ATC in 1999 with Darryl and the ATC crew talking about starting a convention up here in Toledo. Since then there has been three location changes, hotels being bought-out and numerous other complications associated with running an historical miniatures gaming convention.
Our location since 2008 has been the Visitor Center at Fort Meigs in Perrysburg Ohio, just south of Toledo. There are many things that make a convention work. Here's what works for us.
1.Never change the date. Once you start dancing around the calender you will lose your attendees. You can change the location, even the city but never the date.
2.Use the Michigan Format. Sorry Darryl but I must disagree with you on this one. The key is to get the PEL out to as many sites as possible. We did the staggered schedule for Drums when we were at the hotels but due to the smaller space available at the fort we must use our table space carefully. If people know the format of your show they will show up on time.
3.Always have a variety of events on the schedule. We run demos that can handle new players thoughout the day. Also try to have something for the kids. Our Game Day coming up in November is for kids so almost all of the events are level one. That's not to say that adults won't have a good time too!
So I'll get off my soapbox now and be quiet.

So no pictures unless on Facebook :(
C

Here is a Flickr album of photos from Advance the Colors:

link

Thanks Savory!
And Thanks to Larry for pics :)
Clif