John the OFM | 20 Sep 2014 12:22 p.m. PST |
I have the 3 volume quality paperback edition. do you? Try this exercise. Put all 3 volumes on the table, blindfold yourself. Have a friend mix them up, so you don't know which volume is which. Point to one at random. Open to a random page and remove the blindfold. The last time I tried this, I saw on the page 3 rival Turkish factions, 3 Christian factions, the Byzantines, some local syncretistic sect, leftover Jews, Shiite Fatimids, Kurds, and I think there were some Mongols. I forget the exact date, but does it really matter? Sounds familiar today, doesn't it? So, what makes anyone in any government think they can change anything or that the "problems" are even soluble? |
Florida Tory | 20 Sep 2014 1:40 p.m. PST |
Reading Runciman does change one's perspective on the mid-East. I have found myself citing him a lot in the past 13 years. Since you asked, I have the Folio Society edition. Rick |
Weasel | 20 Sep 2014 1:49 p.m. PST |
All problems are solvable from the comfort of a leather chair in front of a hot keyboard :) |
Rod I Robertson | 20 Sep 2014 2:30 p.m. PST |
Weasel: Only if the problem is software or you are Hari Seldon of Foundation fame. ; ) Rod Robertson |
Sobieski | 20 Sep 2014 8:48 p.m. PST |
Watch out for politicians who claim to have "solutions". In many cases you may not have noticed that there was a problem. |
Great War Ace | 20 Sep 2014 9:02 p.m. PST |
I had the Oxford edition first, then bought the Folio Society set and gave my Oxford to a friend. And yes, the Middle East is just as unsolvable today as it ever was. The Jews find themselves in c. the same position as the kingdom of Jerusalem in the high 12th century…. |
capncarp | 20 Sep 2014 9:15 p.m. PST |
"And yes, the Middle East is just as unsolvable today as it ever was. The Jews find themselves in c. the same position as the kingdom of Jerusalem in the high 12th century…." …with the exception that the Kingdom of Jerusalem didn't have a nuclear arsenal at hand. |
Rod I Robertson | 20 Sep 2014 9:34 p.m. PST |
An empirical approach to OFM assertions: Well it did not work out for me. I randomly selected Vol. 2 of the penguin series and opened up to page 253. Just a gaggle of Frenchmen and holy orders arguing at Vezelay in March AD 1146 over how to launch a second Crusade. King Louis and his vassals were tripping over themselves to sign up. I wonder if they would remember their enthusiasm as they sat rotting in the Nile Delta several years later? History does not repeat itself but as Mark Twain said, it certainly does echo. Rod Robertson |
Milites | 21 Sep 2014 5:29 a.m. PST |
Vol 2, Penguin edition, selected, Louis is looking for boats and is distrustful of the Byzantines. The Turks attack again, the French suspicions of collusion heighten and they set off, with some motley Germans. So as Rod say's faint echoes. Great war Ace, I doubt the IDF will fall for another Horns of Hattin trap. Also, didn't the Saracens have a considerable lead in most technologies then? How times change. |
Ambush Alley Games | 21 Sep 2014 8:37 a.m. PST |
I've got the Oxford edition of Runciman's three-volume work on the Crusades. I re-read 'em every three or four years, so I have no doubt that Twain's echoes are quite evident. Shawn. |
Great War Ace | 21 Sep 2014 10:42 a.m. PST |
Hattin wasn't a trap, it was an opportunity that worked out. The Crusaders trapped themselves through being politically divided and stupid. They actually knew better than to cross that waterless expanse of blasted summer heat. Their army did not break down until they almost made it to the villages overlooking Lake Tiberius. So Hattin was actually a very near-run thing. The Israelis today could fall prey to their own fears and perpetrate a modern version of Hattin. Such scenarios are only easy to see with hindsight…. |