"Prussian Dragoons 1806 unit sizes" Topic

I have my French as units of 24 figures (cavalry) which is a full strength at 1:20 regiment – but to be honest this is more to do with liking Peter Gilder's units as a kid.

So, for the Prussians, what size units would look good and work well on the table? What do you use? I am sure that I could find organisation lists that suggest 1,000s of men in a regiment, but not convinced that would work on the table, so I am looking for thoughts please.

Not that it matters too much, but I use BP as rules (and GdeB).

Thanks

Marc,
I have an 1806 Prussian Army for GdB, and my Dragoons are 30 figures (5 squadrons of 6 figs) for the 3rd regiment and for the 5th regiment(Queen's) – 2 battalions of 30 figs. The Auer and Queen's regiments were double sized Dragoon Regiments.

My French Chasseurs for 1806 are a 24 man regiment each (3 Squadrons).

John

In 1806, there were fourteen dragoon regiments, the formation of the last having been ordered on 24 January 1803. They had five squadrons each, with the exception of the dragoon regiments Königin (no. 5) and Auer (no. 6), which since the time of King Friedrich Wilhelm (Frederick William) I consisted of 10 squadrons, grouped into two battalions.

The ten hussar regiments consisted of 10 squadrons each, grouped into two battalions of five squadrons. Included amongst the hussar regiments as regiment no. 9 was the lancer corps. Hussar regiment no. 11 had been created in 1792, with a strength of only one battalion of five squadrons.

For gaming purposes, you are of course free to do what you like.

John – that is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you. I had wondered about 30 figs, and was slightly worried they would look too big, and the 60 fig especially, but I guess breaking them up into two battalions does get around that issue. DO you know if they fought together (ie brigaded together on the battlefield)? But I shall sort out two units of 30 to start with. Many thanks

OS – thank you for your permission.

Marc,
The 5th Dragoons was a Brigade on its own at Auerstadt attached to one of the Divisions there. I'm at work so no books handy to let you know which Division though.

John

The second double sized unit was with Lescoq (spelling) in co-operation with the Russians in the east and I agree with VonBlucher as to size and deployment there were 4 Dragoon reg in the east in 1806/07 along with 1 Cuir 1 hussar (deaths head)I am working on this force myself at 1-20 in 20mm for GDB

According to Wenzlick / Handrick 'die Schlacht von Auerstedt' there were two Dragoon Regiments at that battle, Nr. 3 'von Irwing' – 5 Squadrons, 750 effective and Nr. Koeinigin – 10 squadrons, 1,500 effective. nominal strength since 1787 was 848 men (I assume in 5 squadrons – Meissner, "Preussen und seine Armee).

Kleist13,
Hofschoer shows the field strength of the Queen's & Auer Regiments at 1682 and the rest at 841. You have to look at what Marc is showing for the French, as he is using a 24 man regiment for their Cavalry and even 2 of Davout's Chasseur regiments were larger than this in the field. We do the French infantry battalions at 36 figures, even though quite a few of Davout's battalions were at or approaching a thousand combatants in the field that day. All this is an attempt to scale down a little farther on both sides. So in most cases while not exact, the scaling is a balance between space available and how many figures do you actually want to paint?

If you can get a copy read R Mark Davies refight of Auerstadt using GdB rules in Wargames Illustrated #158, utilizing the above mentioned unit sizes. It was a hard fought engagement that was in doubt for most of the game, but ended in a remarkably historic result.

R Mark Davies also in the article has some of the historic restrictions placed upon the Prussians. Like no massed batteries, linear formations, Command control issues, and a few others. Quite an excellent read, if you looking at giving the battle of Auerstadt a whirl on the gaming table.

John

"If you can get a copy read R Mark Davies refight of Auerstadt using GdB rules in Wargames Illustrated #158"

Nah, I wouldn't read anything by that old bore.

R Mark Davies, nice try as I notice you changed your avatar earlier. Ii's your fault that I purchased GdB rules and have been ever thankful for that article since then.

;)

Ditto that here too VB, it was Mr Davies Eckmuhl article that got me started on ABs and Napoleonics

I've been trying to find a copy of that account of the Eckmuhl re-fight. Is it anywhere now on the Web?

Ok, some great stuff here – VB – thanks – you have understood exactly what I was talking about – trying to "scale" around my French units for a good game (even if not 100% accurate – but then, what OOB was ever 100%…).

If any one has a copy of that article I would love to see it.

Thanks all – much appreciated.

Marc,
SInce I can't PM you, send an email to JBStachura at AOL dot com. I will scan a copy for you when I get a chance, and email it off to you.

Nick,
I'm unsure which issue contained the Eckmuhl refight, but if I can find it, I'll scan it and PM you.

John

With my 6mm adler prussian dragoons I put them in 16 man squadrons. I am building an 1806 prussian army 1 man represents 10. It is a little daunting with the 10 squadron Dragoon regiments, but they look great. Right now I have 4 squadrons of Auer Dragoons, 1 squadron of Death Head Hussars, and 2 squadrons of Towarczys Lancers.

Btw does anyone have Tim Reeves Art of War Prussians 1806 plates? I am thinking of buying them to help with uniforms, but was wondering if anyone has seen them yet.

Thank You
Michael

That's very kind of you!

The Eckmuhl game was a year before Auerstaedt, so it's somehwere around WI #146 (Eckmuhl was played Aug 1999, while Auerstaedt was Aug 2000). I've not seen it anywhere on the web – I've got the WI CD Rom with those editions somewhere though.

The scenarios (without the post-game write-up and lovely photos) are in one of the GdeB scenario books, though the Auerstaedt scenario is truncated a little, as it lacks the Prussian Reserve Corps. There is also a slight mistake with the Eckmuhl Austrian orbat (IIRC it misses some senior commanders and one of the brigades).

Thanks R Mark Davies, I'll check those out when I get a chance. I should have all the WI from that time period.

Michael,
I haven't seen Tim's Prussian 1806 plates, and most likely won't purchase them as I pretty much have all the info I need on the 1806 Prussians, especially after von Winterfeldt post on the Towarczys filled in some info that I was missing.

John

For those looking for Eckmuhl a little artist license in the spelling? or Duncan must have had a rough week :). It's located in WI 153 June 2000. So Nick, in the next couple of days I'll scan this in also.

Yes, it's spelled properly as per the German, rather than the French spelling – Eggmuhl.

;)

You've piqued my interest – I'll have to dig out that CD and see what drivel I was writing 15 years ago…

Something worth mentioning re the photos – lovely as they are, they were only re-created bits of the games that were 'posed' for Duncan's camera in Newark. Consequently, some of the features were condensed to fit them onto a single table. The actual games were 16x14 feet, spread over three long tables!

I'll have to find my photos of the actual games and scan them in…

@Marbots Chasseurs

For Prussian Army of 1806 there is plenty of very good documentation on

napoleon-online.de

Thanks VonBlucher – PM responded to.

You Sir are a scholar and a gentlemen … as well as a Prussian Advanced Guard Commander!!