Don Sebastian | 16 Sep 2014 9:03 a.m. PST |
Did the Iroquois Confederacy warriors ever used horses in warfare? Or would those only be used by the indians of the Plains? |
Rakkasan | 16 Sep 2014 9:32 a.m. PST |
They did not use horses in warfare. They gradually acquired horses in the 1700s and there were mounted scouts/messengers. |
Der Alte Fritz | 16 Sep 2014 9:49 a.m. PST |
Only in Hollywood movies pre-1970, methinks. I recall one version of Last of the Mohicans where the Iroquois were riding horses. |
John the OFM | 16 Sep 2014 10:24 a.m. PST |
Conquest makes a fine pack of 3 of them. They once held up an entire column of British in a game just by appearing there. |
historygamer | 16 Sep 2014 10:56 a.m. PST |
Not their mode of transportation. In part because there weren't many horses to come by, and those that were could be hard to feed on the frontier, pasture grass being in short supply. Note the British in both wars of the period usually had to haul fodder for their horses. |
Glengarry5 | 16 Sep 2014 11:09 a.m. PST |
I imagine it's hard to hide behind a tree on horseback! |
Don Sebastian | 16 Sep 2014 11:29 a.m. PST |
Thanks guys! Does anyone knows any recorded instance of them employing mounted scouts/messagers? |
Tom Collins | 16 Sep 2014 3:04 p.m. PST |
The Iroquois that lived in Canada were mounted in raids on upstate New York during the AWI. In the 1780 raid some warriors started mounted, so they could surprise the next forts & homesteads. Other warriors became mounted with captured horses from farms & captured forts, until by the end of the raid the entire British force were mounted. During Pontiac's Rebellion the garrison of Fort Detroit watched mounted warriors leave and return to Pontiac's camp from mounted raids. |
zippyfusenet | 16 Sep 2014 3:54 p.m. PST |
At the battle of Lake George in 1755, on the Bloody Morning scout, the aged Mohawk chief Hendrik rode to the battle on horseback, where he was killed. Hendrik's horse was quite an exception in 1755, but it illustrates that woodland Indians in general were acquiring horses and learning to ride in the late 18th century. Horses were mostly used for transport, rarely ridden into battle, because the eastern woodlands were lousey country for cavalry charges, and flintlock muskets were easier to shoot and reload dismounted. However, Alan Eckert recounts a story that the Shawnee chief Blue Jacket while mounted once rode down and clubbed the frontiersman Simon Butler, who was afoot. |
raylev3 | 16 Sep 2014 4:39 p.m. PST |
Not in combat. The Iroquois were eastern woodland Indians. the Terrain did not lend itself to "cavalry" actions. Doesn't mean that there weren't exceptions, but that's what they were -- exceptions. The regions east of the Mississippi were very heavily wooded with little open land, poor roads, if any, and small woodland tracks. |
Winston Smith | 16 Sep 2014 5:33 p.m. PST |
Glickman's "Painted on Blood " Wyoming Massacrr book has a few anecdotes about groups of 6 or so mounted Woodlands Indians operating in the area. 2 bags of the Conquest Indians are enough for a scenario. |
ColCampbell | 17 Sep 2014 9:23 a.m. PST |
And if anyone wants some, as well as other FIW figures, please see TMP link Jim |
historygamer | 17 Sep 2014 9:51 a.m. PST |
Remember too, you don't just jump on a horse and ride it. If you have never ridden a horse before, that can be kind of hard to do, if not impossible. They were not a horse culture. |
Druzhina | 18 Sep 2014 3:04 a.m. PST |
The regions east of the Mississippi were very heavily wooded with little open land, poor roads, if any, and small woodland tracks The woods were more open as the natives would burn off areas so as to promote grass to attract herbivores which they could hunt. Tree seedlings are killed by these fires. This has been replaced by wilderness once this practice stopped, including farmland abandoned by farmers who 'went west'. Riding through open woods is possible and eastern woodland Indians did ride horses to get from A to B. Druzhina Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers |
historygamer | 18 Sep 2014 5:50 a.m. PST |
Based my readings of the period, I think the most common methods of transporation for Indians were: 1. foot 2. water/canoes While they may have had a few captured horses, the woodland Indians were not a horse culture as there were few roads and the trails were often narrow and not suited to horse. Note Braddock had to build his own roads, as did Forbes – and haul food for them in their wagons. Both has trouble securing horses and wagons (to haul food for them). Further, the lack of fodder for the horses on the frontier was a major hinderance to their operations. The burnt off areas you refer to did not produce the kind of food stuff horses could feed upon, unlike deer. Horses are pasture animals, with hay coming in second for their food choice. Some trees are poisonous to horses, unlike deer which seem to eat virtually everything that grows. If we are talking about the odd Indian riding a horse – sure – but not on any mass scale until you get out into the plains. I only know a little about horses. I have been riding for the better part of a year and learning. Anyone who has horses can tell you they are a lot work to maintain and often get sick (colic) and can can easily die. I am not aware of any vets in the Indian villages, farriers, etc., to help maintain their health. So to answer the original question: "Did the Iroquois Confederacy warriors ever used horses in warfare?" Ever is a broad word. But the simple answer is no, they did not in any regular sense to your question. |
zippyfusenet | 18 Sep 2014 8:24 a.m. PST |
I only know a little about horses. I have been riding for the better part of a year and learning. Anyone who has horses can tell you they are a lot work to maintain and often get sick (colic) and can can easily die. Good point. The Plains tribes mainly rode Mustangs, hardy little beasts that ran wild out west. Horses in the east were bred from English (mostly) domestic stock. They needed grain feed, stable shelter, shoeing, grooming, etc. Although. Alan Eckert's anecdotes indicate that by the 1780s, the Shawnees and other Ohio tribes routinely raided Kentucky settlements for horses, and often rode mounted on their raids, dismounting to fight. |
Bill N | 18 Sep 2014 12:58 p.m. PST |
I don't know about the Iroquois confederation, but the Cherokees did use horses. However I would guess they would be more for transportation than for mounted combat. |