"British made alternatives to the Lewis Gun" Topic

If Britain did not have access to the US made Lewis light machine gun, was there a potential WW1 alternative that was designed and made in Britain?

Dave G

Your question is a bit strange, because the Lewis gun was made in England. From Wikipedia:
"The Lewis Gun was invented by US Army Colonel Isaac Newton Lewis in 1911, based on initial work by Samuel Maclean.[1] Despite its origins, the Lewis Gun was not initially adopted by the American military—most likely because of political differences between Lewis and General William Crozier, the Chief of the Ordnance Department.[2] Lewis became frustrated with trying to persuade the US Army to adopt his design and so ("slapped by rejections from ignorant hacks", as he said),[3] retired from the army. He left the United States in 1913 and headed to Belgium (and shortly afterwards, England). He established the Armes Automatique Lewis company in Liege to facilitate commercial production of the gun.[4] Lewis had been working closely with British arms manufacturer The Birmingham Small Arms Company Limited (BSA) in an effort to overcome some of the production difficulties of the weapon.[1] The Belgians quickly adopted the design in 1913, using the .303 British round, and in 1914, BSA purchased a licence to manufacture the Lewis Machine Gun in England, which resulted in Col. Lewis receiving significant royalty payments and becoming very wealthy.[3]

The onset of World War I increased demand for the Lewis Gun, and BSA began production (under the designation Model 1914). The design was officially approved for service on 15 October 1915 under the designation "Gun, Lewis, .303-cal."[5] No Lewis Guns were produced in Belgium during World War I;[6] all manufacture was carried out by BSA in England and the Savage Arms Company in the US.[7]"

The lewis Gun was designed by an American but the manufacture of it started in Belgium quickly followed by Britain and not in the States until quite late. That said I don't know of another good light machine gun of the time.

x42

Edit: I was real slow in answering Just got up.

The Hotchkiss machine gun had already been in British and US service and by the standards of the day was a light machinegun, being issued to cavalry and mounted infantry. Its main disadvantage was that it was fed by long metal stripper clips which could be put in upside down resulting in a jam. Also used in some British tanks. It would have been fairly simple to adapt the design to take enclosed box magazines, in which case you end up with something like the Interwar Vickers-Berthier LMG. Various models still used by the Japanese right through WW2.

Also available for purchase or licence building but strangely un-used by any of the Allies was the Danish Madsen 1905 LMG, a light weapon with a top mounted box magazine. The internal mechanism looks complicated but the Vietnamese managed to keep them operating in the 1960-70's in the jungle, so they would have been no worse than many other machineguns in service during WW1.

"Political differences"? Well, in a way. The fact was that the Ordnance Corps needed to get special permission from Congress to buy a weapon designed by a serving officer outside his regular duties, as well as to buy "patent firearms", and Lewis was in the shadows on both accounts.
Besides, the Army had used up it's brownie points on such matters getting Congress to ok the Colt M1911 automatic pistol.

As for other decent light machine guns, there was the Madsen.

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The Hotchkiss was the automatic rifle not the MMG version. I have pre-war photos of British cavalry trialling the Madsen.

Robert

Just for your information, Brigade Games makes a German-equipped Chinese LMG team using Madsens in their China at War line.

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I have one of these packs and they are nicely done sculpts.

Although it wouldn't have been used by the Allies, don't forget about the German MG08/15. Although heavy, it was used by the Germans as a "light" mobile machinegun.

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Blazeaway Miniatures has an MG08/15 team in their Kameraden line.

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Jim

Jim

"Although it wouldn't have been used by the Allies, don't forget about the German MG08/15. Although heavy, it was used by the Germans as a "light" mobile machinegun."

It would probably have been possible to bodge up a Vickers into a 'light' version like the Germans did with the MG08.

If we had, I wonder if we'd have gone into WW2 with a belt fed LMG?

The Madsen, though not made in the UK was usd by them

What about the Canadian Huot?
I think the New Zealand Charlton was second war?

The hotchkiss was used by many cavalry units.

Huot? I thought the Canadians used the Colt machine guns.

Dont forget thanks to the factory in Belgium the Germans were able to use them also.

The Canadians started out with some of those Colt 'Potato Diggers'.

If we had, I wonder if we'd have gone into WW2 with a belt fed LMG?

maybe so, but it's not like the Bren was a poor weapon. Better than a BAR, that's for sure (and I'm generally a Browning fanboy)!

A Barsoommian Thark would have a problem firing the MG08/15!!!:)

You say that like it's a bad thing……

Thanks for all the feedback on this. Very interesting! I was thinking of the Hotchkiss.

The root of this question stems from a what if timeline where the US and Britain are at odds (Ala Plan Red scenario).

Dave