Tango01 | 13 Sep 2014 3:34 p.m. PST |
"A diplomatic crisis looms. Turkey, a key U.S. ally and the only NATO member that borders areas controlled by ISIS jihadists in Syria and Iraq, is in a prime location to hit the extremists next door. But it prefers not to. Instead, Ankara is seeking a low-profile role—so low as to be almost invisible—in the international alliance that Washington is building up against the so-called caliphate, and that fact is undermining the American strategy to strike back against the terrorists President Barack Obama deems "unique in their brutality." Washington, obviously aware of the problem, is working overtime to get some sort of concrete supportive commitments from the Turkish government for a strategy in which American airpower supports regional armies with boots on the ground to crush the ISIS forces. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel visited Ankara on Monday; Secretary of State John Kerry is expected in the Turkish capital Friday. But background briefings to the Turkish press suggest that President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his government will refuse to give the United States more than the bare minimum of support: It won't allow the Americans to attack from NATO air bases in Turkey and it will decline to let Turkish troops take part in combat operations…" Full article here link Amicalement Armand |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 13 Sep 2014 3:56 p.m. PST |
Unsurprising. Turkey is still smarting from being rebuffed by the Administration when the latter backed off from launching cruise missile strikes against Syria after Assad agreed to turn over his stockpile of chemical weapons. I'm surprised the Administration even bothered to try. Even when Turkey takes 'sides,' they usually don't back it up with action. |
svsavory | 13 Sep 2014 4:14 p.m. PST |
I've heard news reports that ISIS is currently holding several Turkish citizens/diplomatic personnel. They don't want ISIS to start executing them. |
jdpintex | 13 Sep 2014 4:36 p.m. PST |
Fanatick is right. Turkey is sitting everything out as they are still peeved about being rejected by the EU. The US and their allies would be better off working with the Kurds. They'd probably make better allies anyway. Couldn't be much worse. |
Weasel | 13 Sep 2014 4:50 p.m. PST |
Does anyone make present-day Turks? Preferably in 15mm? I was shocked that QRF doesn't |
Skeptic | 13 Sep 2014 4:53 p.m. PST |
I'm not an expert on any of this, but it seems to me that Turkey might be considering the longer and shorter term risks. After the fighting will supposedly have "ended", they would be left to deal with whatever organizations and governments might happen to neighbour them, as well as with any potential repercussions for "having invaded" Syria and/or Iraq. Also, and I don't know how porous their border is, but it could make sense for them to be cautious while the conflict persists because of the risk of cross-border incursions. After all, it's not as if they can fly back across an ocean – they are located right next to the conflict. Finally, they may be concerned about the risk of giving any domestic extremists an excuse to rise up and bring the IS into Turkey, too. |
Redroom | 13 Sep 2014 6:22 p.m. PST |
Weasel – the Turks have some cool looking vehicles imo, wish someone did make some |
Weasel | 13 Sep 2014 7:43 p.m. PST |
Redroom – It does seem like a curious omission, doesn't it? They could be used for all sorts of interesting what-if games. |
Cyrus the Great | 13 Sep 2014 11:58 p.m. PST |
svsavory has it right, it's part of the equation. |
Gaz0045 | 14 Sep 2014 4:05 a.m. PST |
The Turks get twitchy about arming the Kurds or 'encouraging' a seperate Kurdistan in any form……….they weren't overly cooperative after GW1 with the no fly zones, nor GW2……it is their backyard after all and they will have to deal with the aftermath on their borders…….. |
GeoffQRF | 14 Sep 2014 4:41 a.m. PST |
Does anyone make present-day Turks? Preferably in 15mm? I was shocked that QRF doesn't Primary assault weapon seems to be the AKM, G3 or M4, so you can use (in 15mm) most troops with suitable paint schemes. They use M60 or MG3, so I'd probably use the postwar Germans but with RPG instead of Panzerfaust. Turkish camo seems to be this flecky pattern:
Main battle tank is the Leo 1A3 and Leo 2A4 weith a large number of M48 and M60 still in service, so we can do those. For the ACV you can use the AIFV, and then the BTR-80, LandRover Defender and Hummers. |
Deadone | 14 Sep 2014 6:02 a.m. PST |
Turkey has been anti-Assad supporting jihadis regardless of creed. No surprises they'd keep quiet on this. |
Legion 4 | 14 Sep 2014 8:17 a.m. PST |
Turkey has tended to become less "European" and more moslem recently in it's thinking and some would say actions. For some of the reasons mentioned and others … Many gaming "what if" scenarios comes to mind with the Turks crossing their borders into Syria and/or Iraq. The Saudis doing similar, etc. … Again, since I'm a fan of 6mm … GHQ, CinC and a few others, could provide much of the models used in such conflicts … |
Zargon | 14 Sep 2014 9:52 a.m. PST |
Because they're turkeys and always have been n remember how they pulled the wool over the worlds eyes during the Crimean War Russia and European Royalty were all cousins and they still fought over some flimflam story the old Ottomans were plavering about, they managed to be part of the Central powers in WW1 (prolonging that one) and when needed in WW2 politely were not available. So canny they are and we still play polite. Me I still say they owe us one Byzantine civilization and its capital. History may never have been so convoluted if we (the west past and present had of given them the shove proper) Now on the other hand just love the Ottoman armies and its empire- even got a WW1 army to do battle against the stalwart ANZACs can't say they're not brave when they do fight, but their politics ,urgh. Cheers. |
Cacique Caribe | 14 Sep 2014 9:55 a.m. PST |
Camo? You call THAT Turkey dressing? Dan |
Legion 4 | 14 Sep 2014 11:09 a.m. PST |
The Turks performed quite well during the Korean War as part of the UN forces. They were somewhat feared and known for being quite fierce … So I wish they take that heritage/linage, and put it to good use to help stop the heretics of ISIS … |
Deadone | 14 Sep 2014 3:51 p.m. PST |
So I wish they take that heritage/linage, and put it to good use to help stop the heretics of ISIS The Turks would sooner bomb Kurds as they've been doing for decades. And nowadays they gladly support jihadis both in Syria and Gaza. |
Cacique Caribe | 14 Sep 2014 4:05 p.m. PST |
Would you do the floppy stocking headdress as camo?
And was there some competition on who could wear the biggest turban? 'Cause I think Turkey won that race:
Either the turbans were filled with helium or the Turks had the strongest necks ever! Dan |
PSADennis | 14 Sep 2014 6:12 p.m. PST |
Geoff, I am pretty sure that the M60's and the M48's have all been modified by Israel for Turkey. Again I am not expert but I am pretty sure of it. So they would look different the your current sculpts. However if you did do them you could use the for post YKW Israelis which would make many of us happy. Now if I could just talk you into an Iranian Zulfiqar we modern gamers would have lots of options for the region. Hey a guy can dream can't he? Dennis |
Legion 4 | 15 Sep 2014 8:29 a.m. PST |
The Turks would sooner bomb Kurds as they've been doing for decades.And nowadays they gladly support jihadis both in Syria and Gaza.
At this time, it appears that is what is happening or will happen … As I said, the Turks have become more "islamist" in their thinking/attitude … I question if they still should be in NATO. With their support of some enemies of the West. And their Kurd-Turk "relations", as it appears the Kurds are our only real worthwhile ally from the Mid East. Taking the fight to ISIS. Of course if they were thrown out of NATO, it would probably push them closer to the islamists camp and further away from the West/Europe … And again, where are the Saudis ? Didn't they just buy some 450 Leo A4s ? |
Bangorstu | 15 Sep 2014 1:35 p.m. PST |
ISIS currently hold around 45 Turkish hostages. I suspect that's the biggest factor. |
Deadone | 15 Sep 2014 4:02 p.m. PST |
At this time, it appears that is what is happening or will happen … As I said, the Turks have become more "islamist" in their thinking/attitude … I question if they still should be in NATO. With their support of some enemies of the West. And their Kurd-Turk "relations", as it appears the Kurds are our only real worthwhile ally from the Mid East. Taking the fight to ISIS. Of course if they were thrown out of NATO, it would probably push them closer to the islamists camp and further away from the West/Europe A case of "damned if you do and damned if you don't." And again, where are the Saudis ? Didn't they just buy some 450 Leo A4s ? Why would the Saudis be going to war against an organisation that is destabilising a pro-Iranian shi'ite government? And they buy lots of toys – they have 72 Eurofighters and 84 additional F-15SAs on order as well as AH-6i Little Birds etc etc. |
Deadone | 15 Sep 2014 4:03 p.m. PST |
ISIS currently hold around 45 Turkish hostages. I suspect that's the biggest factor.
I don't think ISIL was holding any Turkish hostages when the Turks opened their borders to jihadis and Arab weapons moving into Syria. Basically this is a continuation of the Shia-Sunni conflict but the West isn't smart enough to work that one out.
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Rod I Robertson | 15 Sep 2014 7:04 p.m. PST |
If the West decides to use the Kurdish Peshmerga as the "boots on the ground" component in the fight against IS, then the Turks may find it in their national interest to not only sit this one out but also to lend quiet and deniable support to IS. A Peshmerga victory would almost certainly bring about the creation of a Kurdish state from the wreckage of Iraq and that is a can of worms which the Turks are very eager to avoid. A bloody stalemate might be more to their liking than a Kurdish state. Rod Robertson |
Tango01 | 16 Sep 2014 10:34 p.m. PST |
Turkey Wants A Buffer Zone Against The Islamic State "The Turkish military, feeling threatened by the emergence of a radical self-declared Islamist state at its doorstep, is considering creating a buffer zone along the country's border with Syria and Iran, the president said on Tuesday. "The Turkish Armed Forces are working on plans [to create a buffer zone] and will present them to us, and we will decide if it is necessary," President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told reporters. A senior Army officer said headquarters is assessing the merits of a buffer zone, but added the government would make the final decision. He did not comment further…" link Full article here link Amicalement Armand |