"Artillery ammunition boxes" Topic

Hello
Can anyone please advise what colour I should paint the ammunition boxes on my low ammunition markers.
Thank you

The colour depends on the nature of the ammunition:

Shot: olive
"Shrapnel" (i.e. spherical case etc.): red
Canister: light drab

link

The small arms ball colours are in this table:

link

Thank you. Much appreciated.

If you are using the box off a limber it would be the od green of the carriage. Separate boxes which were emptied and the shot/shells placed in the limbers for field use would be as 67thtigers noted.

Hey, where are you buying ammo chests to serve as the low on ammo markers?

Interesting info about the individual boxes.

Thank you.

Bede 19025, I got them from Leven Miniatures. The are 6mm.

Very interesting. In my reenacting days I don't recall any one discussing the different colors or using anything except the artillery green.

Yup. The ammunition boxes were painted various colors depending upon the type of ammunition inclosed. This was for quick recognition when loading wagons, train cars, etc.

For artillery ammunition, the colors noted above are correct, except that, in the artillery ammunition trains, these boxes would be removed from the wagons and the contents, as noted above, loaded into the limber chests.

Artillery batteries would swap the empty limber chest from the gun's limber, with a full one from the gun's caisson. This would continue until the caisson's 2nd limber chest was removed and the empty one placed aboard, at which time the caisson would be driven back to the reserve artillery train to be replenished, then would travel back to the battery.

As to the small arms boxes, the regiments were usually withdrawn in order to replenish their cartridge boxes, but if that was impractical, then the individual boxes could be brought forward, but it was a serious PITA to do so. Infantry small arms boxes each held 1000 rds of ball ammunition and weighed between 98 & 110 lbs each. Even though they had wooden handles on the side, these were for loading and unloading, and not for carrying, as they were simply strips of 1X1 wood, angled on the ends.

The easiest way to carry one was to hump it up on a shoulder for as long as you could, then give it to another man to carry for as long as he could, etc. In the heat and humidity, that 100lbs got REAL heavy REAL quick.

So whenever possible, it was best to bring the troops to some point in the rear where the wagons could come up, rather than try and send details back and then have them hump the boxes forward.

Simple math will also give you the number of boxes needed for your unit. If, say, you have a 500 man unit, then for each man you would need 40 rounds (4 bundles of 10-rounds each). 500 men X 40 rounds = 20,000 rounds, or 20 boxes. That is basically 1 wagon's worth. Each wagon carried about 1 ton on campaign, so 20 boxes would be approximately 2000lbs.

V/R

Was in a hurry last night, so just thought I should expand on the pieces. They are from Leven Miniatures. LM does Supply Dumps with four pieces. Three of them have crates and oil drums, so I asked Mick at LM for multiples of the one with just crates. He was very helpful and accommodating. I also bought quite a few of the very good LM buildings. Nice crisp castings and very reasonably priced. Mick was terrific to deal with and the (very well packed) parcel got to me in Australia (from the UK) in a week. I highly recommend LM to anyone who is after 6mm stuff.

One more little detail for those so interested.

In the AoP, when Joe Hooker took over, he ordered that all of the ammunition/ordnance trains be marked on the canvas wagon cover with the Corps insignia, and a 6" wide band from front to back on each side of the cover, in the color of the ammunition. Thus, wagons carrying artillery ammunition would have a 6" wide scarlet/red stripe painted from front to back on the canvas cover, centered on the side. Infantry ammunition wagons would have a 6" blue stripe, etc.

There are images which show this in effect in the AoP, and some records indicate that by 1864, it had spread to all the federal armies.

What a cool little factoid to learn. Thanks!

I've also read accounts of two wheeled carts being brought to the front lines, (or awfully close to it), and dropping the infantry ammo there for resupply.

I'd suggest a quick perusal through Charlie's catalog and pics to see some painted examples. His stuff is quite accurate and well worth every penny.

charliesboatworks.com

Okay, I have a practical question. ACW units had to march on their own two feet and usually threw away everything but the essentials on a long march or when going into combat.

Let me put myself into the shoes of a regimental officer. If we are really pressed in some way in going into battle, what are the essential things that are needed and how do we be sure that we have them when we need them.

What are these?

[1] Shovels and axes to dig into the ground and get out of the way of those nasty bullets.
[2] Ammo beyond the 40 rounds or so a man that was the basic load
[3] Water or water containers

I would have a ATV with each company carrying some of the above- or maybe a pony (horses would be taken away by some higher rank a@@wholes) carrying the load.

Did this happen? Why would it not be SOP? Or did they do it and not make the fact too obvious, as it was not sanctioned?

1968billsfan

Actually, despite the post-war stories of veterans, the reality as gleaned from the OR's and contemporary accounts such as letters, newspaper accounts, etc, indicate that most troops carried their knapsacks, even to include CS troops.

Account after account on both sides speak of "dropping packs" before going into action (and sometimes going into action while wearing them). A handful of men were left to guard the packs until the unit came back for them, or sent the wagon, etc.

Artillerymen also had knapsacks and these men commonly strapped their packs onto the limber chests and footboads of the limbers, caissons, etc. They would be tossed off into a pile just before the unit went into action, similar to how the infantry shucked theirs.

The men were required to keep their haversacks and canteens. It's even in the US Army Regulations. That gave them food & water if they couldn't get back to their packs, or have them brought forward to them.

When Joe Hooker took command of the AoP, he ordered (GO#30, March 23 1863) that each man be issued with 20 extra rounds (2 bundles of 10 rounds each) to be carried in the soldiers pockets whenever action was imminent or expected. Prior to this, each man had been issued an extra 20 rounds to be carried in the knapsack. The issue before combat was to be enforced once the men had already expended the 20 extra rounds from their packs.

Hooker's orders called for the Division Ordnance Officer to maintain, in the trains, 140rds/soldier of infantry ammunition, 100 rounds of carbine & 40 rounds of pistol for each cavalryman, and 250 rounds of artillery ammunition for each gun. These orders were still in effect, apparently, through the end of 1864 and likely through the end of the war, as attested to be a letter dated August 11th, 1864.

The letter was from a Lt Col Hagnar to General Ramsay, head of the Ordnance Department (Hagnar was also an Ordnance officer). He writes:

"In conversation with Captain Cooley of the 11th Infantry, recently, he volunteered the remark that there was great wastage of ammunition in the Army of the Potomac, where he had been serving, in consequence of the orders frequently given to receive 50 rounds per man, when the men could only take care of 40 rounds in their boxes. He said that the men would throw away the extra bundle as soon as they got a chance."

There's more, but you get the drift. Hooker's GO had been reduced from 20 extra rounds to 10 extra (one bundle) sometime in the late fall of 1863, but the understood need for extra rounds was still present. As was the mens habit of lightening their loads.

As to lightening their loads, it is true that the men pared down to the smallest amount required to get by, but that didn't mean ditching everything. Wilbur Fisk, (3rd VT) writes of the day before leaving winter quarters in 1864 for what would become known as the Wilderness Campaign, and agonizing over whether to include a can of peaches in his basic load. he had two tin cups and left one behind as he eventually did the peaches. Yet he remarks about still having to carry their basic load of knapsack with blanket, groundcloth and shelter half, spare shirt and socks, toiletries, extra ammunition & rations, and his diary, plus paper, ink, pencil, envelopes, etc. He carried his wallet in the breast pocket of his coat.

Sgt Rice Bull, of the 123rd NYI, writes in "Soldiering" of them carrying their knapsacks, etc, all the way through the Atlanta Campaign and the March to the Sea.

What we don't take into account is that each regiment of infantry had a pioneer detachment that was equipped with axes, shovels, picks, etc. These men were used to clear impediments to the unit's march and/or deployment and were usually under the command of a sergeant. The implements were carried in shoulder slings so as to be available when needed, and the men also carried their normal infantry kit, and weapon. On occasion, the detachments could be combined for more difficult problems facing a brigade or even a division.

However, the men were taught how to build hasty works using their bayonets, hands, even tin cups (actually, they were tin-plated sheet iron) and whatever materials were to hand.

Hope that this is helpful.

As always, good info, TK.

And this brings up one of my pet peeves. Namely, the paucity of figures the depict combat ready infantry (ie, post 'drop packs' order). Would be nice to have such in order to show how a unit might really have appeared in battle.

Did gunners swap the chests from the caissons to the limber? My understanding was the 2 chests on the caisson was used first, and the chest on the limber when that was exhausted.

A chest for a M1857 contained 32 rounds of 12 pdr plus charges – more than 4 hundredweight. Swapping such a heavy load would seem burdensome and awkward.

The idea was to swap the caisson's limber chests onto the limber until they were expended, then send it back for reloads while the crew used what was in the gun's limber.

Yep, they were heavy, but you had plenty of men to lift them off and transfer. Most guns had about 20 men to work the piece. We forget how many men were in a battery (and how many horses) because we only have 2-4 minis/gun and most folks don't use the full 6-horse limber teams (if they even use the limbers) or those for the caissons.

A battery took up a LOT of space.

I'm off to the VA Hospital for more procedures in the wound clinic today, but when I return I'll pull out my artillery manual and see if I can give some citations for the crews, loading, etc.

V/R