"Can You Field ACW Lancers?" Topic

Lancers are perhaps the rarest of unit types in the Civil War, and quite ineffective. Only a real collector would bother to have Lancers in his force…

Do you have any Lancers?

* yes, painted and mounted
* yes, not painted yet
* not yet
* not interested

No. I can't recall reading about them ever seeing combat…did they?

Yes so rare they were never used in combat. That's pretty rare. :)

Used once, a Texan unit if I recall correctly…

Rush's Lancers rushslancers.com

Have them but never used them. I think Naismith made them in 15.

I couldn't help but paint up a group of "Rush's Lancers", 6th PA Cav. Just looked too cool.

link

They saw no real action with their lance, and were issued Sharps carbines in May, '63.

The rule I used in Johnny Reb for lancers was that if they were able to survive defensive fire and close with the target, they would inflict casualties first AND the enemy unit would have to pass morale before they received casualties in return melee.

As I remember in most of my games, they got shot out of the saddle before impact, but a couple of times they did hit target.

6th Pennsylvanian Lancers
rushslancers.com

Which is why I mounted mine on camels for GASLIGHT.
Painted.
"Fought" in many battles.
First thing the Rebs shoot at because they are just weird.
Not once did they ever get to use their lances.
Look pretty cool, though.

26th Texas (Debray's Mounted Riflemen)Haythornthwaite says they used Mexican Lances being replaced with Enfield Rifles and pistols in Oct. 1862.

I am working on an article about a battle where lances where used. I hope to have it in the winter or spring issue.

I had Rush's Lancers many year ago in 15mm. I wouldn't be surprised if they were Naismith because I was buying a lot of Naismith back then.

Interestingly, although pure Hollywood, in the Audie Murphy version of The Red Badge of Courage, there are a couple of scenes that show a troop of lancers, one scene briefly shows them going into battle with their lances.

Here is company B, 5th Texas in action:

link

Only one company had lances. The 5th Texas is on my paint table right now converted from some Stone Mountain 15s.

Does anybody have lancers in 28mm? They could be useful for my Texas Unionists.

My lancers were large 25mm Connoisseur, or Hinchiffe.

Lancers are Cool!!

Now, what about units of pikemen? I know that they issued pikes to some lucky chaps back then! Let's see 'em on the tabletop!

I had Rush's Lancers in 15mm, first generation Minifigs… a long time ago now…

Why not?

Does anybody have lancers in 28mm? They could be useful for my Texas Unionists.

Old Glory makes 25/~28mm Mid 19thC Mexican lancers. I use them for rurales in the Battle of Puebla. Some of which could work as Texans, possibly with some had mods.

I used Perry miniatures cav, As I had about 20 boxes it gave me enough figures to create a regiment of them :-)

Those lancers would look really cool on the tabletop.

I love lancers, crimean war tho, they are pretty useless . I would not even bother with ACW lancers. Sudan lancers are more useful. WW1. ? Waste of time. Don't know enough about FPW to fake an opinion.

Would never do them for ACW, but part of the reason I want to do Napoleonics at some point.

How would the lancers do against other Cav. armed with swords and pistols?

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At Puebla (same era, different war), the lancers rolled through the French cav.

Lancers are Cool!!

Now, what about units of pikemen? I know that they issued pikes to some lucky chaps back then! Let's see 'em on the tabletop!

Let's not forget peltasts and chariots.

It is probable that the 1st California Cavalry Battalion had lances. It was a Californio unit. It's probably also the only ACW unit you can legitimately paint with palominos.

Of course, it never saw real action, but, hey …

Yes, I did Cramptons gap, South Mountain, once and had some lancers for the game. Rush's Lancers were there as scouts for the Union army.

In the game they probe toward the mountain looking for ambushes.

In the real battle they got into a good skirmish East of Burkittsville, MD with, if I remember right, Texas Cav. The lancers chased the rebs west from Middletown, MD and cornered a company of rebs in the school yard of a country school. The kids sat at the windows and watched as the Rebs lines up on one side of the yard while the lancers were at the opposite side. Rather than dismount and shoot it out, knowing the children were there, they charged, lance vs saber. They made a good show of it. Before the yanks could be reinforced, the rebs fell back toward the mountain.

I recall reading that both sides used flaming pigs, they were delicious!

Yes 6th Pa. painted and mounted.

There was a Lance armed unit in the Battle of Valverde. As mentioned above, a company of the 5th Texas. They charged what they thought were New Mexico militia, but turned out to be the slightly less green Colorado boys. They lost about 20 men killed/wounded and a much larger percentage of their horses. they returned to confederate lines and re armed themselves with pistols and shotguns and continued the fight. Info from Wikipedia.

link

Doug MSC,
How would the lancers do against other Cav. armed with swords and pistols?

Quite a bit depends on the relative units. in the battle report above, the infantry fired 2 volleys at 20 yards and the Cavalry still closed with the Lance. they were repulsed by the Infantry with their Bayonets. Training is everything.
the same is true of some of the Saber charges that actually got off in the war. Cavalrymen were just not trained to use their melee weapons like european Cavalry were (broad statement applying to most volunteer units in a general sense. I have no idea of the 5 regular army regiments)
So, IF the Lancers were well drilled European types, I would give the fight to them. mounted pistol fire probably isn't too effective outside of 20 yards, and more of a few paces thing if you are moving. once inside of Lance range, if the pistols are exhausted you have a saber that the unit barely knows how to use and the Lancer has reach.
BUT, assuming 2 standard volunteer units for the war, the Lancers would most likely loose, IMHO. they did not have the training to make effective use of their weapon, whereas the opposition probably threw out their sabers anyways and had 2-4 revolvers on them. I suppose the engagement will go to the pistol armed cavalry.

Rush's Lancers here

Yes I have a 20 figure 6th Penn. Rush's Lancers unit in 15mm. I can't remember if they are Ral Partha or Heritage figures. They are charging with lances down. They are also wearing the light blue cape or whatever you call it. They are painted and based complete with dismounts.

Freikorps 15 also has Rush's Lancer figures but I think the lances are up. I put them on the table every once in a while. I just use them as any other Union Cav. unit. Although I think in the old "Rally Round the Flag" rules they got some kind of bonus or first strike during melee.