"A column of Russian tanks and armoured vehicle... " Topic
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Tango01 | 26 Aug 2014 11:14 p.m. PST |
…has crossed into southeastern Ukraine. "According an Ukrainian official, Monday, August 25, 2014, a column of Russian tanks and armoured vehicles has crossed into southeastern Ukraine, away from where most of the intense fighting has been taking place. Col. Andriy Lysenko, a spokesman for Ukraine's National Security Council, told reporters that the column of 10 tanks, two armored vehicles and two trucks crossed the border near Shcherbak and that the nearby city of Novoazovsk was shelled during the night from Russia. On Tuesday, in a continuation of the pattern, Kiev said it had captured a group of Russian soldiers who had entered Ukraine on a "special mission", while Moscow said they were there by mistake…" Full article here link Amicalement Armand |
GeoffQRF | 27 Aug 2014 4:15 a.m. PST |
Ok, this is the same article from Monday. A column of variably reported 10 ranks and 2 APCs, up to 30 or 50 vehicles was intercepted on the southern road to Maiupol. Ukrainian army reports 2 tanks destroyed. Ukraine us, again, a big quick jumping off and saying they are Russian, as it is possibly a separatist column that has moved down from the south-east region below Donetsk. That said, 10 Russian VDV paras were caught. It's unclear if they were part of this column, just in the same area, or somewhere else nearby. According to their (videoed) interviews they were told they were going on a 75km march, but not where or why. I doubt there were just the 10 of them, and it seems highly unlikely that they had no form of Glossnast/GPS location, or at the very least maps. Galina was listening to the actual Russian interviews. They claim to be conscripts which (for wargamers) may draw into question the 'elite' status of Russian para units. They claim to have been unaware that they crossed the border, and somehow travelled something like 30km into Ukraine without seeing any signage in Ukrainian (there are different letter forms and words). On questioning, they were asked when they realised they were in Ukraine. They replied 'when we saw the Ukrainian tank with Ukrainian flag'. They say they tried to go back, but we're fired at by Grads. "Whose Grads?" "Our Grads!" He also indicated that he is not sure what happens now as he fears he will be arrested if he goes home |
Black Bull | 27 Aug 2014 5:42 a.m. PST |
VDV have always been conscripts just that some asked to join them rather that the regulars and they had/have a weight limit. Troops do get lost at times the RM invaded Spain a couple of years ago. |
GeoffQRF | 27 Aug 2014 6:04 a.m. PST |
Hmm, so it seems: "One year conscripts serve even in the 45th VDV regiment (Medvedev spoke to one), which calls into question the actual combat effectiveness of this elite commando unit." As I said, from a wargames position perhaps VDV should be subject to a random dice roll to ascertain their actual status, which could vary from seasoned/experienced elite down to raw recruit (with a little parachute experience)? Yep, Gib, would you believe that was 10 years ago, in 2002?: link "This [Gibraltar, where they meant to land] locals observed, was easily recognisable because it had a 1,398ft high rock sticking out of it." Perhaps slightly less of a concern as Spain and the UK were not involved with an armed conflict at the time (albeit not actually at war) with accusations of invasion. Given that scenario, perhaps a little more caution should have been in order? Rather than trying to avoid international incidents, Russia seems to be hell bent on creating one? |
GeoffQRF | 27 Aug 2014 6:25 a.m. PST |
link "On Wednesday, rebel forces fired at least ten shells into Novoazovsk, a town of 12,700 people, AP news agency reported from the scene. Four people were wounded in shelling the previous day, the mayor was quoted as saying. Closer to Donetsk, Ukrainian security forces said a column of 100 vehicles had been seen travelling from Starobesheve down to Telmanove. These vehicles, which included tanks, armoured troop carriers, Grad multiple and rocket launchers systems, were marked only with "white circles or triangles", the Anti-Terrorist Operation press centre said. An unnamed Ukrainian defence source told AFP news agency that the vehicles had to be Russian. Seeking to verify the report, an AFP journalist found traces of caterpillar tracks pointing south on the road between Starobesheve and Telmanove. Once again, 'had to be Russian' does not discount the probability that these could be separatist units breaking away from encirclment near Donetsk and heading south, as the two named regions are directly north of the location yesterday. The other possibility is that it is separtist units who have received Russian equipment from over the border. |
GeoffQRF | 27 Aug 2014 6:49 a.m. PST |
Russian journalists say they have been attacked while investigating reports that soldiers were secretly buried after being killed in Ukraine. link Reports from Russia also indicate that there has been a sudden and unexplained upsurge in the number of killed or wounded military servicemen. "On Tuesday, Russia's presidential human rights council said about 100 wounded servicemen had been airlifted to a military hospital in St Petersburg for treatment. Nine soldiers were killed at a training range in Rostov region, it said. Military hospitals in Rostov region and southern Russia were "overflowing", a council spokeswoman said. They do seem to be having a lot of training accidents lately…? |
GeoffQRF | 27 Aug 2014 7:07 a.m. PST |
Under interrogation, the men are said to have admitted being part of a deployment of up to 400 Russian troops who entered Ukraine illegally. Not seen that yet – still listening to footage. It is claimed that the men wore Russian military uniforms without insignia and ID marks on their armoured vehicles had been daubed in white paint… [Emphasis added]. The soldiers have claimed, in their interviews, that they were told to paint over numbers, and white triangles or circles on the vehicles as part of a training exercise, to identify between two units. Not sure why units on a training exercise would (a) operate so close to the border that they might 'accidentally' cross into a conflict zone (seems a pretty daft place to run a training exercise, bordering on negligent?) and (b) do so without insignia…? "We were just traveling through fields and then we stopped in the middle of the field and the BMP2 (armored vehicle) broke down," he said. …BMP-2? Interesting. Only seen BMDs so far (?) Asked if he knew they were on Ukrainian territory, he said: "When we got into the village we saw a tank with Ukrainian flag. Then we understood." He said they then came under fire. This would coincide with the interview my wife was listening to. He then confirmed that they were fired on by their own Grads, from Russia. |
Tango01 | 27 Aug 2014 10:28 a.m. PST |
Many thanks for the good info GeoffQRF! (smile) Amicalement Armand |
Rhysius Cambrensis | 27 Aug 2014 12:00 p.m. PST |
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GeoffQRF | 27 Aug 2014 12:35 p.m. PST |
Report today indicated that separatist vehicles seen moving south and engaging Ukrainian troops were marked with white triangles and circles. Hang on, didn't the Russian paras say their vehicles on exercise were marked with…? |
Milites | 27 Aug 2014 7:26 p.m. PST |
Conscript VDV, certainly had a tougher training regime and performed well in Afghanistan, and Chechnya, but in the later conflict they had problems with the quality of their middle ranking leadership. This from the BBC, about the sudden appearance of T-72's in the disputed region. link |
Jemima Fawr | 27 Aug 2014 10:21 p.m. PST |
Milites got in there first… As the article says, the T-72BV (with Kontakt-5 ERA) is only used by the Russian armed forces and could only have come from them. The mask(irovka) is slipping. |
GeoffQRF | 27 Aug 2014 10:53 p.m. PST |
However, Denis Pushilin, a rebel leader in Donetsk, told a news conference that Russia was not involved in the current offensive.He added that the rebel forces were receiving more volunteers, some from as far away as Serbia. Presumably they are arriving directly by teleport? |
Jemima Fawr | 28 Aug 2014 2:08 a.m. PST |
Indeed. Just where are these new forces attacking Mariupol supposed to have come from if not from Russia? |
GeoffQRF | 28 Aug 2014 6:20 a.m. PST |
They are not at Mariupol yet, just passing Novoazovsk:
Supposedly broken out south of Donetsk and headed down the Russian-Ukrainian border, then along the coast. Reportedly movement of vehicles 'bearing white triangles and circles' seen passing through Telmanove headed south. Hmm, the Russian paras said they painted their vehicles in white triangles and circles… ;-) Henry Langston from Vice News is currently at a checkpoint close to the flash-point town of Novoazovsk and has been speaking to BBC World News."Ukrainian forces have struggled to react against the artillery barrages that have come from the pro-Russian forces," he said. "Currently they don't have anything to hit back at, they don't have their own artillery or heavy armour in this position." Ihor Kolomoisky, the oligarch who governs Ukraine's Dnipropetrovsk region, is preparing to take control of Mariupol, the port city now threatened by the rebel advance, as well as Zaporizhia region because "the invasion may come in that direction" |
GeoffQRF | 28 Aug 2014 7:26 a.m. PST |
According to AP news agency, Col Andriy Lysenko says two columns of Russian tanks and military vehicles have rolled into southeastern Ukraine. He says the vehicles fired Grad missiles at a Ukrainian border post before crossing into the country. |
GeoffQRF | 28 Aug 2014 8:12 a.m. PST |
NATO claims this is satellite footage of a column of Russian SPG operating inside Ukraine, dated 21 August |
Tango01 | 28 Aug 2014 11:25 a.m. PST |
Very good info my friend GeoffQRF.! Thanks for share!. Amicalement Armand |
Milites | 28 Aug 2014 11:52 a.m. PST |
Can we have one, what is going on in the Ukraine thread please? |
MaahisKuningas90 | 28 Aug 2014 9:33 p.m. PST |
This is rather interesting: YouTube link BBC covered this video earlier, and indeed that T-72Bm89 (if this is filmed in east-ukraine as stated – might be T-72BA too though, cant see if theres a FCSs cross-wind meter) is propably the first actual visual evidence quite firmly linked to russia. |
zardoz1957 | 28 Aug 2014 9:49 p.m. PST |
Doesn't exactly look like a a bunch of rebels. |
GeoffQRF | 29 Aug 2014 2:44 a.m. PST |
Doesn't exactly look like a a bunch of rebels Whether they are local 'separatist/freedom fighters', volunteer mercenaries from Chechnya/Serbia/Spain, Russians taking some bizarre holiday or actual Russian military forces on a covert mission, the ability of this group should not be underestimated. They are by no way a rag-tag bunch running round with guns. They are well armed and organised, at least on a localised front. What they don't appear to have been, until recently, is co-ordinated over a larger front. The Ukrainian armed forces has not exactly been cutting edge, tactically or strategically but, despite some losses, does appear to have been taking significant advances in territory over the last few weeks and restoring order behind it as it moves forward. What we now seem to be seeing is a directed counter attack with purpose. If, as is now being portrayed, Russia is taking positive and direct steps to reinforce the separatist forces and direct their actions then the Ukrainian armed forces may well be out-gunned, out-manoeuvered and this could enable the separatists to retake ground in the south-east. The latest action appears to be a move away from Donetsk, which was slowly being encircled and a risk of the DPR being cut off with no route against which to fall back. We have yet to see if this means that the DPR has abandoned Donetsk entirely, which would enable Ukraine to secure it, reinforce and cut significantly into the centre of this disputed region. That could also leave Lughansk isolated. This may be associated with Crimea. Russia had stated an intention to build a land bridge at Kerch earlier this year. Apparently this project was originally brought up in Soviet times, but deemed too difficult/expensive. Medvedev may well have opened his mouth too early promising a bridge that they may have found they cannot build/afford, forcing them to look at an alternative solution. It has already been promulgated that this may be an attempt to secure the entire Azov sea coastline, although quite what that gains for Russia in real terms, other than a bit of home prestige, is unclear. Crimea is an expensive white elephant, with a significant number of pensioners, but other than tourism generating very little income. As such it will be draining the Russian economy to pay pensions to a sizeable population, against a very poor tourism income this year – Europeans don't want to go there, Ukrainians don't want to go there, Russians either cant go there (Russian tourism airline stopped flying after its Boeing aircraft were subject to sanctions on spare parts) or worried to go there (proximity to war zone, especially after MH17, and fear of reprisals by the significant number of Ukrainians and Tartars who still live there). Net result, minimal income, maximum expense, political flag waving at home but trashed reputation everywhere else. So it may be that Russia is pushing the separatists to seize the whole coastline from Rostov down to Crimea – that's a long, thin band that will be under constant threat from Ukrainian army interception – but to what end is unclear. |
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