"US Special Ops: ISIS An 'Incredible' Fighting Force" Topic

"With the Obama White House left reeling from the "savage" slaughter of an American journalist held hostage by ISIS terrorists, military options are being considered against an adversary who officials say is growing in strength and is much more capable than the one faced when the group was called "al Qaeda-Iraq" during the U.S. war from 2003-2011.

ISIS, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, has been making a "tactical withdrawal" in recent days in the face of withering U.S. airstrikes from areas around Erbil in northern Iraq and from the major dam just north of Mosul it controlled for two nail-biting weeks, according to military officials monitoring their movements.

"These guys aren't just bugging out, they're tactically withdrawing. Very professional, well trained, motivated and equipped. They operate like a state with a military," said one official who tracks ISIS closely. "These aren't the same guys we fought in OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom) who would just scatter when you dropped a bomb near them."
Full article here
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Amicalement
Armand

… better reported as credible rather than incredible.

If true, it is a piece of good news for any Western intervention. Our military and our society is better prepared to defeat a regular army than to carry a protracted guerrilla war.

Western SF/Spec Ops types … are truely the best in the world. And it is a good sign, that ISIS appears to be withdrawing, regardless whether or not like a real army … However, never underestimate your enemy. ISIS is highly motivated and funded. And have a good cadre of veteran fighters and former military … But IMO, Spec Ops/CIA types with heavy CAS backing capable local regional forces, ie.: Kurds to start, and see if the Turks, Jordanians, Saudis, etc. can form a Coalition of moslem nations like in GW1 to take their region back from ISIS … instead of ISIS taking them on piecemeal … Or not …

I don't think any of the Arab states will be getting involved too soon.

I suspect Turkey's Erdogan is quite pleased to see Kurds in trouble. The Turks have also made Turkey's border with Syria open to any jihadis going in and out of Syria, regardless of affiliation. All part of Erdogan's retreat from West and re-embracing Islamism and a concept of a Neo Ottoman resurgence.

Saudi Arabia is amazingly quiet on all this – again they've supported jihadis of various ilk in Syria and aren't too happy with Iranian influence in Iraq.

Both Saudi Arabia and now Turkey are happy to see Iranian interests hammered and don't seem to bothered with who's hammering those interests.

As for Jordan, they are neither a leader in Arab affairs nor is their military capable of offensive action.

That's why I said

SEE if the Turks, Jordanians, Saudis, etc. can form a Coalition of moslem nations

None would do it on their own … and will yelp like a rusty metal wheel when ISIS rolls across their borders … Whining for help. One of the many problems it appears to me in the moslem world, is like the American Indians and others, they are too busy fighting among themselves and being governed by tribal, ethic, religious, etc. ties and differences … to see what is the " greater good " … ISIS's greater good is for themselves and themselves only …

Good, conventional forces can be dealt with using conventional tactics and doctrine. That is until they get taken to the woodshed and start becoming unconventional again.

Agree with Antonio and Milites.

Amicalement
Armand

As long as the US provides air cover the Kurds have the high ground. Air power is the main cause of the ISIS retreat. If the US had to get involved with ISIS providing air power and spec op support is a very smart way to go. Very few boots on ground and almost no danger to the air power angle. While ISIS may be the most formidable LAND force in the are "no stool can stand on one leg". ISIS lacks the ability to defend itself from the air and until it can it cannot win on the ground.

On the other hand they are well trained if the article is to be believed. Just where did 17,000 men receive this training? And how did intelligence services miss it? Who is actually behind ISIS? "If you are captured we will deny all"

The Kurds and US intelligence agencies were warning about the threat from ISIL months before the surge, in fact a regular US intel briefing laid out just how bad Iraqi armed forces were becoming, but they were ignored.

The money trail is the big clue as to their backers, I wonder how much of the liberated Iraqi millions and revenues from oil sales is being used as a down payment, to ISIL's investors?

Not surprised really, since I suspect we probably trained more than a few of them, unknowingly, back in the day.

From some accounts I've read and heard about, that they dislike fighting on foot, and tend to prefer fast-moving hit and run raids to instill fear in their enemies, they sound more like a modern-day Rat Patrol, at least in Iraq.

Current speculation on the trainers are Chechnya. Several ranking Chechynians have been in mid to high level commands of ISIS.

A Look At How The Islamic State Uses Suicide Squads To Achieve Battlefield Victories

"Militants with the Islamic State (IS) are increasingly relying on terror tactics and suicide squads, and the method was key in their recent capture of one of Syria's largest air bases, experts say.

IS fighters captured the strategic Tabqa air base in the Raqqa province after raging battles since Aug. 19, tallying more than 170 members of government forces and over 360 IS fighters, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

The weeks of fighting for control of Tabqa air base has featured a terror strategy by a group of special IS fighters named "Inghimasy," or infiltrators, who operate with a "ready-to-die" attitude, said Hassan Hassan, Syrian affairs expert and research associate at United Arab Emirates-based Delma Institute…"
Full article here
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YouTube link

Amicalement
Armand

Increasingly relying on suicide attacks has historically been a good indicator of desperation, not confidence.

ISIS Has 100,000 Fighters, Growing Fast

"The number of Islamic State recruits is much higher than that estimated by foreign observers – around 100,000, says one of Iraq's foremost security experts with unique access to intelligence. The terrorists are swallowing up other insurgent groups.

Foreign estimates put the figure between 20,000 and 50,000.

"[The] Islamic State didn't come from nowhere," according to Hisham al-Hashimi, who advises Iraq's intelligence services and analyzes raw information gathered on the ground. He has studied the group's progression for years…"
Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

Reconstitute TF Dagger, the SF forces that worked with the Northern Alliance and who so efficiently routed the Taliban in '01.

Team them with reliable local forces(emphasis on reliable) and air power and turn them loose. MUCH more effective than even large numbers of conventional forces and only requires a politically acceptable number of "boots on the ground".

Milites 27 Aug 2014 7:16 p.m. PST
Increasingly relying on suicide attacks has historically been a good indicator of desperation, not confidence.

That may not be an indicator of anything. When dealing with islamic fantic jihadist types … more of a standard operating procedure …

U.S. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel: More Than 100 Americans Are Fighting For The Islamic State

"* US defense secretary hints that a growing number of Americans are taking up arms with jihadi army in Iraq and Syria – more than 100, up from just a dozen estimated a week ago
* Insists of ISIS: 'You've got to destroy it, because if we don't destroy it, it will get worse'
* Backs up Obama's claim that the US aims to 'degrade and destroy' the militant Islamist group
* Obama caught flak in Estonia on Wednesday for following that proclamation with a weaker goal of making it a 'manageable problem'
* Two ISIS militants killed in recent weeks were Americans

Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel said Wednesday that the problem of 'foreign fighters' aiding the self-proclaimed Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) includes far more Americans than has been previously reported – at least 100 and counting.

'We have acknowledged publicly we are aware of over 100 U.S. citizens who have U.S. passports who are fighting in the Middle East with ISIL forces,' he said during a televised interview…"
Full article here.
link

Again, it's very difficult to me to understand why a guy born and race in USA (or another Western country) change his normal life to be there.

Amicalement
Armand

Again, it's very difficult to me to understand why a guy born and race in USA (or another Western country) change his normal life to be there.

Because they were often not raised in a traditional American environment, but rather one with Arabic and/or Islamic influences and one were parents might have had poorer levels of integration into American society.

E.g. My parents were Yugoslavs/Croats living in Australia and they hate Australia (welfare is good though). A lot of Croat migrants in Australia are the same here and do lots of chest beating about being Croatian and hating Serbs. So their kids grew up being quite nationalistic and beating up Serbs in soccer games, vandalising cars outside Serbian clubs (Serb did the same). Some fought in the Yugoslav Wars too. (Personally I've renounced my Croatian heritage. I view myself as 100% Australian).

People are generally influenced by a lot more than just finanical, educational and employment opportunities.

Cultural and relgious links matter. And contrary to popular belief, most migrants bring a lot of their old prejudices, problems etc into their new countries.

It's a risk of multiculturalism but people never wanted to talk about it due to fear od being accused of racism. Many modern thinkers also thought that deep downinside all people wanted the same things and assumed that "inside every gook there is an American trying to get out" (line out of Full Metal Jacket).