OSchmidt | 25 Aug 2014 1:41 p.m. PST |
Yesterday I was at a toy train show, big one in the Expo Center in Edison NJ. Lots of venders lots of booths. I go primarily to get fine terrain pieces I can't make myself, and some scenic material. You also never know when a vender is going to have some books on militaria, or a few tank models or bits of old games.. I used to be a model railroader till I was 14 and I got Joe Moreschauser's book "How to Play War Games in Miniatures." Anyway, I got some stuff and I looked at the half dozen modular layouts the model railroad clubs put together. I was thinking about this. The little train just goes around the track, very peaceful, very soothing, it doesn't complain that I have an 1890 engine pulling a 1900 box car, that the color on that hopper is wrong, it never argues about rules, scenarios, historical points, It never tells me that the Great Northern didn't stop at East Hogslobber Kentucy-- it just chugs around that track looking pretty and just a huffen and a puffen'… It doesn't pass snide judgements about my gaming. It just rides around the track, so smoothly, so peaceful, looking at the pretty scenery which no one touches, unlike gamers who drop their drinks on it, push off the table top, and generally fold, staple, spindle and mutilate. You don't have gamers grabbing your minis in their grubby claws like a handful of popcorn, dribbling them across the table top and plunking them down, broken spears bayonets and all… You don't have people coming over, drinking your beer and never bringing any of their own, taking out your books, and not putting them back, borrowing them and never returning them… The Little train just goes around the tack…. |
Col Durnford | 25 Aug 2014 1:59 p.m. PST |
"The Little train just goes around the tack…" I hope you didn't say that at the show. Those model railroad guys are just like us. |
Lee Brilleaux | 25 Aug 2014 2:57 p.m. PST |
Alas, I've been told that model railway hobbyists can be at least as cranky and unreasonable as any wargamers. Moreover, whatever they call their version of rivet-counting has opportunities far beyond the mere 'wrong for summer 1943' obsessiveness we can muster. "That dirt is completely wrong for that area of southern Colorado in a dry April, you know." |
Parzival | 25 Aug 2014 3:06 p.m. PST |
It's worse than that. In the Model RR community, you'll find there's a three-way war between those who think the hobby is about recreating the process of running a railroad, with time schedules, defined stops, etc.., and those who think it's about recreating the look of historic railroads, and those who think it's about creating stunning but completely unrealistic terrain setups with impossible mountains and bridges etc., etc.. And those who are passionate on these issues can be very passionate indeed. I also suspect that Model RRing has as much of a problem with unwanted disruption and handling of trains. track and scenery, if the "DO NOT TOUCH" signs at various modeling events I've been to are any indication… But aside from all that, yes, the little train doesn't care; it just goes around the track. And the little cavalry man doesn't care, either; he just sits atop his horse, surveying the field, no matter what the gods above are going on about. "His not to reason why; his but to do or die." |
skippy0001 | 25 Aug 2014 3:18 p.m. PST |
Gomez Adams was the best model railroader in history. |
boggler | 25 Aug 2014 3:47 p.m. PST |
Rivet counters….'nuf said. |
Bashytubits | 25 Aug 2014 4:24 p.m. PST |
My train doesn't have rivets. It's welded. |
Last Hussar | 25 Aug 2014 4:41 p.m. PST |
My little men don't care that this week they are being the 3rd Virginia, when last week they were being Texans, with the same flag and uniforms. Nor do they care if their Tricorns are wrong for that particular Imperial regiment, nor that they have the drummers front and centre. They have never murmured that if they are to be paras this battle, why are wearing BD and not Denison smocks. No Optio has ever queried yellow shields, just so I can remember which unit is the veterans. When finished they will learn to accept that one game they are for the King, the next for Parliament. Oh I know players like that. I don't play them if I can help it. |
The G Dog | 25 Aug 2014 4:45 p.m. PST |
I'm in both hobbies. And yeah, there are cranky old farts in model railroading who are quick to tell you where you went wrong just like in wargaming. The guys that hold 'operating sessions' are really just gaming with their trains. Schedules, orders, turns. |
nevinsrip | 25 Aug 2014 4:55 p.m. PST |
yes, the little train goes around the track. And after 3 or 4 minutes of that…ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! I won't compare it to war gaming because I do not game. But trains are fun and toy soldiers are more funner. So there. |
nevinsrip | 25 Aug 2014 4:57 p.m. PST |
"That dirt is completely wrong for that area of southern Colorado in a dry April, you know." Good one, Prof. If someone said that to me, I would offer to bury them in it. |
kallman | 25 Aug 2014 5:18 p.m. PST |
If someone said that to me, I would offer to bury them in it.<\q>Now…that, is a great comeback. Agreed Model railroaders are perhaps just as difficult if not more so than war gamers. |
Coyotepunc and Hatshepsuut | 25 Aug 2014 5:39 p.m. PST |
I did model railroading with dad well into my teens… I still look at the stuff in the hobby store and wish I had the time and money to do both trains and soldiers… |
Rrobbyrobot | 25 Aug 2014 5:46 p.m. PST |
I sometimes include trains in my games. Helps with the wish to play with trains while still enjoying a good war game. |
Ancestral Hamster | 25 Aug 2014 7:10 p.m. PST |
Much like OSchmidt, I did model railroading as a boy, but I discovered Donald Featherstone's "Wargaming" at about 13 instead. However, I'd already lost interest in model railroading by then anyway. After I'd built the layout, done the wiring, made the terrain (poorly) the little train just went around the track. And that's all that it did. I found the fun part of the hobby, (at least for me) was the process of making the set-up: the train itself was pretty dull. So I tried the process of running a railroad with the schedules etc. That didn't work. Tried simple wargaming fighting over the rail-lines. That went better, but eventually it was easier just to leave the train out of it, and game directly. |
nevinsrip | 25 Aug 2014 8:08 p.m. PST |
Trains + ACW = lotsa fun!! |
Dynaman8789 | 25 Aug 2014 9:02 p.m. PST |
With Trainz by Auron I am constantly setting up my virtual RR. I personally hate the running a "real" RR bit they added. Many of the real model RR guys make snide jerk wargames look downright nice… |
cosmicbank | 25 Aug 2014 9:35 p.m. PST |
In the words of Sheldon Cooper "O gauge or no gauge" |
Night Owl III | 25 Aug 2014 10:28 p.m. PST |
While model railroaders can be a cantankerous group they / we seem to have a lot more in common than not. There are some true craftsmen out there and I still have to change my skivvies when I see pics of George Sellios's Franklin & South Manchester or Rod Stewart's Three River City.
I don't mess with it anymore (although I've been itching lately to reboot the G Scale Copper Gulch RR out in the flower bed) because I found it wasn't as interactive as gaming. I spent most of my kids younger years saying "Don't touch, don't touch!" whereas now I say "Your turn to move your tanks & don't forget your sniper over there" They'll always be rivet counters and there will always be someone who knows more about everything than you or I but as with anything at some point you have to declare "This is my hobby and this is how I'm going to do it." Sermon over – I'm off to make Mickey Mouse hats for my zombies! |
Winston Smith | 25 Aug 2014 11:54 p.m. PST |
SOMEONE has to tell you whether you are doing it right or wrong!!! Have you gone mad??? |
Night Owl III | 26 Aug 2014 12:08 a.m. PST |
I just heard over the loud speaker: "We've got a loose one over here" and there is a drone outside my window. I think my days are numbered ;) |
OSchmidt | 26 Aug 2014 4:21 a.m. PST |
Dear Guys YES, I know that Model Railroaders can be as persnickety and difficult as gamers. YES I know you have rivet counters in that hobby as well. Believe me-- I known. YES I know that there are bitter wars between those who are "prototypers" and "Freelancers" and people who want to get into the Process of running a railroad (crazies!) YES I know all this, my wife worked for one of the two big Model Railroader magazines in the US (Railroad Model Craftsman). BUT
I don't have to invite them over my house to play with my trains. Model Railroading can be a very good solo hobby where Wargames can't. If you want to put up with them in Model Railroading, you have a choice. |
The G Dog | 26 Aug 2014 6:54 a.m. PST |
YES I know all this, my wife worked for one of the two big Model Railroader magazines in the US (Railroad Model Craftsman). RMC just announced they are out of business as of 8/22/14. I'm going to miss them as they were a great source of modeling information useful to both gaming and model RRing. |
OSchmidt | 26 Aug 2014 7:56 a.m. PST |
Dear The G Dog That's sad. They were a great magazine. They focused on the building and construction of the hobby rather than just buying stuff. I thought them better than Model Railroader, though Model Railroader has the lions share of the circulation. My wife saw it coming. I will miss them too. The old man, Harold Carstens was the body and soul of it, but his son I think (who I know) never had his heart in it. Otto |
nevinsrip | 26 Aug 2014 8:37 a.m. PST |
Now, that's a shame. I learned more about terrain making from model railroad magazines than I ever did from so called wargames terrain building handbooks. It is sad to see all of the smaller hobby publications go by the wayside. Condolences to the Mrs., O. |
OSchmidt | 26 Aug 2014 8:54 a.m. PST |
Dear Nevinsrip Oh don't worry about the Missus' she's on Social Security and was laid off two years ago. But you are right I learned more about terrain and modeling from them than any other. By the way I'm publishing soon my own book on making wargames terrain and it will be FAR more like the stuff you saw in Model Railroad craftsman than in the normal terrain books for wargamers which is mostly "Buy our stuff" Otto |
Stosstruppen | 26 Aug 2014 10:07 a.m. PST |
I could sit and watch trains go 'round all day. Very relaxing… |
14Bore | 26 Aug 2014 3:12 p.m. PST |
My Grandfather (who I never got to meet as he died when my dad was a kid) was a railroader. My Dad had some but was not very serious about it. I could have gone either way but wound up with lots of lead. I do like trains but limited resources well. Dennis Prager has said he wonders that as much as little boys like trains it's a wonder they weren't invented hundreds of years earlier. |