robpask | 25 Aug 2014 10:00 a.m. PST |
Hi, in my group we usually play Crossfire. Well, "only" Crossfire… Is there any other WWII set of rules with the same "ratio"? (1 Stand = 1 Squad)? Thanks Roby |
BCantwell | 25 Aug 2014 10:12 a.m. PST |
This is the scale for Fireball Forward, which is a great set of rules and one that I think you might like if you like Crossfire. |
JPKelly | 25 Aug 2014 10:22 a.m. PST |
I believe PanzerGrenadier by Dave Brown is at that scale. |
Mserafin | 25 Aug 2014 10:37 a.m. PST |
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nazrat | 25 Aug 2014 11:23 a.m. PST |
Another vote for Fireball Forward. It's the best tactical WW II game on the market (in my opinion, of course)!! |
freewargamesrules | 25 Aug 2014 12:46 p.m. PST |
I recommend Fireball Forward too. |
DColtman | 25 Aug 2014 1:17 p.m. PST |
It's also my favourite for that scale of play, and I think it was influenced by Crossfire so might fit your niche. |
Ben Lacy | 25 Aug 2014 1:23 p.m. PST |
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blacksmith | 26 Aug 2014 2:54 a.m. PST |
I think THW (Nuts!) has something like that in the works. |
Bezmozgu7 | 26 Aug 2014 2:55 a.m. PST |
Both Mein Panzer and Micro Melee use one stand = one squad. |
UshCha | 28 Aug 2014 11:25 p.m. PST |
Us we tend to allow 1 stand to 1 team but WWII squads were mostly understrength so it would still be OK. Proably what you should have asked is about diffrent ground scales. Crossfire is really about very dence terrain where s all the board is in rifle range and hence there are no ranges. Most other games like us (Maneouver Group)use larger scales. MG has two, 1" to 10m ( 1/72), or 1mm to 10m 1/144. At our 1/72 scale a boars is 2 and a bit rifle ranges. At 1/144 its about 6 rifle ranges. 1/144 type scales are for large battles with AFV's but still at 1 base = upto 5 men. 1/72 is still typicaly largest force employed being an understrength company to keep the bit count to lower tahn about 50 which is the top bound of practical for most folk. Ttypicaly a well defined defence will have only about 1/3 of that number. It is possible to play larger games but holding a battle plan for even a battalion of armoured troops is difficult in anyting other than an unrealistic billiard table flat battle space. |
christot | 29 Aug 2014 6:36 a.m. PST |
Battlefront also has a similar tiered mechanism to crossfire where its 1 stand = 1 section for infantry and 1 vehicle = 1 platoon[ish] so vehicle to infantry ratios remain about the same in BF as crossfire, albeit tending to be slightly higher. |
Last Hussar | 29 Aug 2014 11:19 a.m. PST |
IABSM would work, but you'd need to mark casualties. We use 2 per section, with a mini die showing men left. When you get to half strength- remove a stand. |
War Panda | 29 Aug 2014 4:03 p.m. PST |
Have you ever tried Crossfire…only joking…Fireball Forward is excellent…similar to Crossfire in a good sense in that there's a lot less faff for measuring movement and it has a very flowing feel to it. Less abstract than Crossfire though. I'd really recommend it; although I love Crossfire too so…:) The thing I loved about IABSM is the emphasis on the influence of leadership…recommend them both…actually impossible to tell you which you'd prefer…like me telling you you'd prefer salmon and some one else saying that you'd prefer a steak…. You might be a Big Mac man and prefer FoW…Heyyy BTW if you don't like Crossfire you don't like Steak ;) |
historygamer | 06 Sep 2014 1:29 p.m. PST |
So the problem with Crossfire, as I understand it, is in multi-player games. I took a quick peek at Fireball foreward and on the surface, it seems to have the same problem. Or has Crossfire been updating and/or I'm not understanding Fireball forward? I am thinking of games with at least three players per side. Hate to see too many of them sitting on their hands or drifting off if they aren't involved. |
Dynaman8789 | 06 Sep 2014 4:13 p.m. PST |
I have only played FF with 3 player per side games and it worked just fine. Each card activates one platoon and playing it out takes a few minutes at most with experienced players – often much less. IABSM works fine as well, I use 2 stands per squad and makr casualties. Not mentioned is Schwere Kompanie – it also has squad stands (6mm, 3 guys on a penny is a squad). You can bump it up to 15mm without a problem though. |
tuscaloosa | 07 Sep 2014 7:35 a.m. PST |
Absolutely no one playing Men Under Fire? I bought the ruleset two Historicons ago but haven't seen a game since. |
FlyXwire | 07 Sep 2014 9:06 a.m. PST |
The production value of the Men Under Fire ruleset was totally underwhelming to me…..frankly, after flipping through them and wondering why all the uninspiring/unhelpful pictures had been inserted for (and with strange photoshopped versions too), it seemed the effort was made just to increase page count ($) and add rules "weight"……one of the risks when you mail order sight unseen I suppose. |
Fried Flintstone | 07 Sep 2014 10:07 a.m. PST |
Dave Brown's PanzerGrenadier rules are well worth a look if you want a game that feels "authentic" (hidden deployment, recon, etc) as well as having specific traits for each nationality. A new version was recently launched and there have been a number of articles in magazines covering it. One very nice thing is that the rules have been changed slightly to facilitate the use of armies based for FoW which means no re-basing is required. I would recommend trying it – it gives a good game. |
historygamer | 09 Sep 2014 6:51 p.m. PST |
Is this a third edition of PZGren rules? I think I have the second version. |
Fried Flintstone | 10 Sep 2014 3:01 p.m. PST |
Yes – came out a couple of months ago. Better than before I think. |
historygamer | 11 Sep 2014 9:42 a.m. PST |
thanks. So what do others that have played them think of the PZ Gren rules? |
John Secker | 11 Sep 2014 2:03 p.m. PST |
This edition is called Panzergrenadier Deluxe, and it's been revised quite a bit. I like them – they're what FoW should have been, if they hadn't decided to emulate WH40K – similar scale, as someone said, you can use FoW basing and the games look similar on the table. The rules have good production values, they're well laid out with a table of contents and an index – physically it's a large hardback glossy book in the modern style. Some good mechanisms – you need to keep your chain of command physically in the right place, or you soon run out of impetus trying to get fragmented small units to behave. Managing Impetus is key – you get 1D6 plus some adds each turn and you have to use it to get all your units to move, fire etc. I found it gives quite a nice flow of battle. |
historygamer | 11 Sep 2014 7:27 p.m. PST |
Thanks for the write-up. I bought the last edition, but honestly, found them hard to follow as a cold reader (not having seen anyone familiar with the rules run a game). |
David Brown | 12 Sep 2014 2:14 a.m. PST |
HG, Try these links for game analysis and AAR's. link link DB |
historygamer | 12 Sep 2014 6:30 a.m. PST |
Thanks DB. :-) Guess I'll have to give them a try. I hope they have copies at the next convention in November. |