"Battle of Bosworth 15mm Report" Topic

Hi guys,

Here's a report from our local club's latest Sunday All Dayer. Just follow the link to my Blog thingy here:

whippedraw.blogspot.co.uk

I think there's likely to be some further Medieval Battle reports in the future, as one of the popular phrases at the conclusion was along the lines of "that was brilliant!…let's do Towton!!!" :)

Great stuff – thanks, now following.

FriedlandUK, very interesting. Thanks for posting. What is your opinion of the Anne Curry book? I very much like her work but I have not read the Bosworth book.

At risk of hijacking your OP, I like your blogsite and was interested in your visit to the IWM. The photograph of the 'white' Auschwitz concentration camp reminded me that it was made by Ben Taggart, who co-incidentially made a model of a favourite interest of mine a model of Henry VIII's Nonsuch Palace in Cheam, Surrey. I add this link in case you or any others are interested. link

D'Ewell

Thanks for the Link D'Ewell,

Yes, the Auschwitz model is incredible and provides a very good focal piece in the museum. I had no idea the same person (Ben Taggart) had done a model of Henry VIII's Palace as well.

Last weekend was my first chance to get a glance at the Anne Curry book that Chris brought along with him (he organized the game). My first impression is that it's very useful and contains a lot of new evidence about the disposition of the armies etc. Great for wargaming. The Amazon price is a bit steep at £30.00 GBP – Chris managed to grab a copy from one of the UK shows (Derby World Wargames) for £20.00 GBP

As mentioned on the blog the book I used, and found very good, was Mike Ingram "Battle Story: Bosworth"

Captain,

Would I be correct in thinking that you are in the Ewell area?
If so, do you have gamers' group in the area?
I have family in Morden and Nonsuch Park has always been a great place to go.
Great models too!
Best,

Stephen

I also think Mike's book is excellent …

If it isn't jumping on someone else's thread …

Foard and Curry comparison … the book is roughly 3 parts, part one demolishes previous theories about the battle … part two explains the archaeology … part three 'rediscovers' the battle

Part 3 is the weakest as (having demolished all the other theories) F/C actually offer two possibilities, but don't really argue or explain either.

F/C and Ingram both are based on the new archaeology (which Glen F shared with Ingram) but differ …

(a)Ingram has the battle South to North whereas F/C have either S to N or W to E with Henry Tudor swinging North at the last minute …

(b)Ingram has Richard's numerous guns at one end of the battlefielf whereas F/C have them spread across the army's front. As one of the sources suggests the guns were chained together, spread out seems far fetched …

(c)Ingram believes Richard's army was arrayed with the battles 'line astern' (which in part explains Northumberland not engaging before the critical acts) … F/C assume the army is arrayed 'line abreast' (with guns in front) and assumes Northumberland doesn't fight because Richard's line is just that much longer (no Tudor contingent opposes them)

This is unlikely as Molinet describes Henry's mercenaries deployed a quarter league away, in order to avoid the shot and mass on the flank. So right where F/C place Northumberland (indeed, Molinet later says Northumberland ought to have charged the French but did nothing, I guess making the point)

Molinet's observations seem to confirm the guns being grouped together (which comes from a different source) and reinforces point (b) above.

Some of this is just orientation on a battlefield on Fenn Lane and adjacent to the mire of Fenn Hole. But on the points above, I think Ingram's interpretation follows the sources much more tightly.

I hope that helps rather than confuses the issue

Phil
Ancients on the Move
NB sources close to the Leicester RIII project tell me there is some recent archaeology that has not been validated or shared yet and which may have a bearing on the interpretation, so there is more still to be said perhaps …

See below

Hi cazador,

Sadly, the Epsom Wargame Club, lately of Stoneleigh Broadway, is no more.

There is Heroes and Legends Games in Surbiton/Tolworth link and, of course, Games Workshop in Epsom.

Hampton Court Gamers Club game most Sunday afternoons at Imber Court Police Social club. 16:00 onwards. Location is about 10 mins drive from Hampton Court Palace. link

Sorry, but locally, that is it, although the Guildford Wargames Club is a friendly group but obviously much further out from Morden.

(I continue to co-run the Claygate and Esher Lady Wargamers Club, near Claygate Railway Station, but that is STRICKLY for the ladies)

Phil,

Thanks for posting the comparisons. I think it'll give us a chance to play different and subsequent games of Bosworth with these interpretations in mind.

I must say I'm intrigued to hear that there could be more info about the battle site from ongoing archeology.

Inevitably, these days, they often keep news of finds relatively quiet to deter illegal pickers raiding a site – but it does mean there is an interpretation lag in getting evidence scrutinised.

Re the interpretations, the artillery question is important (the archaeological signature of this battle is an artillery one but that comment of Molinet links another deployment feature to the guns … so fix(a) the canon balls found – should help fix (b) the position of the guns which fired them – should fix (c) the French mercenaries (out of range of the guns and a quarter of a league off) – should fix Norfolk's battle, at least (as the French position is beyond their flank) …

All hypothetical, of course, as Molinet might not be right (but as historians we have to try to make an interpretation that is sympathetic to what sources we have … ) ..

Do post some links if you do further games …

Phil