"U.S. General Says Raiding Syria Is Key to Halting ISIS" Topic

"The Islamic State in Iraq and Syria cannot be defeated unless the United States or its partners take on the Sunni militants in Syria, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Thursday.
"This is an organization that has an apocalyptic end-of-days strategic vision that will eventually have to be defeated," said the chairman, Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, in his most expansive public remarks on the crisis since American airstrikes began in Iraq. "Can they be defeated without addressing that part of the organization that resides in Syria? The answer is no."
But General Dempsey and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, who both spoke at a Pentagon news conference, gave no indication that President Obama was about to approve airstrikes in Syria…"
Full article here
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Amicalement
Armand

The only way to "Deal with ISIS" is to kill the hell out of them from the ground or withdraw and let Saudi and Iran fight out their proxy war themselves.

No one in Syria wants to see American airplanes, soldiers or drones in their country. No one. They would all unite to fight us.

If we want to see ISIS killed in Syria, we will have to enable and support Assad's army and their Hizballah and Iranian allies. Who all loathe us. That may not be wise, or even possible.

"Oh look, a big bag of venomous snakes. Let's stick our hands inside and see what happens."

Our best bet is to support the factions who are most willing and able to cooperate with us – the Kurds, the Iraqi government, the Jordanians. Tread very lightly – none of them want to see many of our soldiers in their country. And let the Syrians work things out for themselves.

Better yet… Step away/*NO* involvement… (Let 'em immolate each other)… Let ISIS form the new "caliphate" (if they can)… and then make the new caliphate a "target of opportunity" (as ISIS's caliphate would most certainly want to do to western "infidel" nations)… Let 'em ALL grind themselves into paste and THEN "water them down" until these "cultures" are harmless.

No one in Syria wants to see American airplanes, soldiers or drones in their country. No one. They would all unite to fight us.

I'm not so sure about that.

After all, the US sent a massive strike package in to fly cover for the attempted rescue operation, and nobody said anything. That's arguably an act of war, sending warplanes and helos into a foreign country without permission. The F16s drew no antiaircraft fire, Assad's folks didn't say a word about an "unprovoked act of aggression" with that huge firefight. That sounds like a tacit permission to blow the crap out of ISIS forces.

About the entire Middle East …

Stop all support to any and all sides. Don't have dealings with anyone there for 3 or 4 generations, and then send in drones to see who is left standing.

Or, better yet …

Nuke the entire Middle East from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Seriously, except for oil (which we should already be getting from other sources), what happens in part of the world should have little to no importance to the US. We have no possible benefit getting caught up in that messy Pan-Semitic family feud.

Dan

@Cacique Caribe

I'm with you brother. I'm so sick and tired of Western Civilization wrestling with this tar baby that I wouldn't mind if asteroids pounded the entire region into snail snot.

How about we take a 100 megaton A-bomb and plop it on Durkadurkastan, Permanent solution to a bunch of homicidal whackos You wanna be a martyr bucko?! Well now you can be one in spades! Up yours!! Thanks for letting me vent, Salut y'all

Bruce the Texas Grognard

Bruce has building up from the frustration of being silenced by technical difficulties. :)

"Isolationism" was the mistaken notion of enough Americans in the first half of the 20th century, that even a Star Trek OS episode was created around the phenomenon (City on the Edge of Forever, iirc, anyway, the one with Joan Collins in it, you all know the one). Today the situation is analogous to turning a blind eye to the growing menace of Teutonic aggression. The names have changed, the guilty have the same mindset. We can't afford to pull out and just let them have at each other. Somebody will arise from the ashes like a phoenix and be a world threat. Much better to pound the "infants" of terrorism to oblivion before they get too big….

This thread is a pretty good indication of why internet posters do not in fact form national policy.

Rather than nuking people that we do not approve of, or pounding them to oblivion, both of which would result in even more hatred of the West/the USA, why not try a couple of other approaches:

1. Contain the militants by providing support to those local governments that actively oppose them, letting them work out the situation and eventually (hopefully) come to their senses, just as European civilisation eventually did.

2. Stop being so arrogant and assuming that what we want to happen in the Muslim world should be what actually happens.

It might also be worth some Americans taking the time to reflect on the unfortunate fact that much of the world regards the USA as part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Jurgen

"It might also be worth some Americans taking the time to reflect on the unfortunate fact that much of the world regards the USA as part of the problem, not part of the solution."

Exactly. No matter which side we help in that part of the world, it is the US who ends up getting blamed for their woes. What's the definition of insanity, boys and girls?

Well, the only recourse we haven't tried in a few generations is … not getting involved, not taking sides. And, since that part of the world invented and has taken to the max the whole "if you aren't with us, you are against us" mentality, any side we help will be the wrong side.

Dan

"Rather than nuking people that we do not approve of, or pounding them to oblivion, both of which would result in even more hatred of the West/the USA, why not try a couple of other approaches:

1. Contain the militants by providing support to those local governments that actively oppose them, letting them work out the situation and eventually (hopefully) come to their senses, just as European civilisation eventually did…".

Another oxymoronic thought is born.

The talking nicely to them tactic isn't working.

Clearly, we need to hit radical jihadis wherever they exist on the globe, since they are at war with non-Muslims everywhere, and are bent on our destruction.

You know, our reporter Foley was a brave and good man, but he was a useful idiot and he died for that reason. He went to Syria to find the pro-western rebels, so he could tell us their story. There are no pro-western rebels in Syria. The rebels he met humored him for a while, then they tied him up in a ribbon and sold him to the ISIS, who used him for a snuff video.

The Assad government may be willing to look the other way when we bomb the ISIS, but we should never turn our backs to them. Our interests are very much opposed.

Mako11,

Have you ever wondered why the USA is always facing an existentialist threat and how, when one threat disappears, another one pops up to take its place?

I am not suggesting "talking nicely to them"; I am suggesting that the West, and particularly the USA, needs to understand that we cannot solve this problem.

Jurgen

No, the West and/or America, "the great Satan", can't solve the problems in this region. It has to come from within. Which seems to be a very long time in coming. When many of the local players there very slowly trying to emerge, kicking and screaming out of the 15th Century. Old habits especially those backed by some sort of religious dogma, is hard to break and in turn evolve. Much beyond the 11th, 12th, 15th Centuries … However, regardless many of the regions denizen's believing it's still an islam vs. crusaders/infidels battle … As long as ISIS and others think this way. There is nothing the West/the USA/The Great Satan can do but try to save themselves from this new islamic plague. The US can't just retreat with it's borders and hope they don't get attacked. 9/11 and other terrorists act proves that … So again, IMO, the short answer is still CAS to attrite ISIS types … And hope the rest of the region that does not hate the US sees that it must act against ISIS. It is an immediate clear and present danger in their backyards. No matter what the US does, someone is not going to agree with or like the actions. Too many factions who don't agree on much of anything. And we all know NUC's at this point are the very last option on the menu … if on the menu at all … Not to mention all the $$$ and aid the US sends to these regions and they still hate "The Great Satan" … AND no matter what, the US policy is to go after those who go after us …

The big problem is that both sides have already found God. Each side thinks they are the Chosen People, and that the other side is pressing an illegitimate claim with God.

"Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it."
― Voltaire

To get in the middle of such a Holy family feud is madness. Both sides now seem desperate to meet God himself. I just hope they don't drag the rest of the world in with them.

TMP link

Dan

As long as they believe they are doing God's work or in taking actions in God's name … no one who is other than themselves is safe …

ISIL/ISIS? have taken the Tabqa airbase in Syria.

link

A couple of things of note.
1. The jihadists are suffering a 2:1 exchange rate, against worful Syrian opposition and they lost some of their better fighters.
2. Would any of the aircraft be flyable? The base has been constantly shelled and even if they were, do they have any pilots?
3. Children are now being used as suicide bombers, which AQ have tried but it's the first time I've heard about ISIS/Il using this tactic. I'm wondering if it's a sign of desperation or depravity.
4. The capture of their first province, will allow resources and reserves to be moved to focus on capturing Baghdad. How will this change the calculus, can the West afford to let Iraq's capital fall?

Cacique Caribe

'Pan-Semitic family feud.'
HUH! `/

Dude… do ypu know what ytou jus said??

Sure do!

Dan

Recon Drones went in today over Syria … Step 1 … Hopefully …

To get in the middle of such a Holy family feud is madness. Both sides now seem desperate to meet God himself. I just hope they don't drag the rest of the world in with them.

"Forgiveness is between them and God. I'm just here to arrange the meeting."