"Hannibal vs Alexander AAR" Topic

A couple of weeks ago there was a discussion on here about who would win in a battle between Hannibal's Carthaginian Army and Alexander's Mecedonians. So I suggested we play it out using the Sword & Spear rules to settle the discussion. I played Alexander with the Macedonian army, and my opponent stepped into Hannibal's shoes to command the Carthaginians. We used typical armies (with the Carthaginans including veteran spearmen in Roman equipment) with 500 points each.
We both rolled high for terrain, but most of the pieces placed went on the edges, so the main effect was to narrow the battlefield, with a large wood on my right and a lake on my left. This would be beneficial to the Macedonians, as it would channel the Carthaginians onto my Phalanx and make it difficult for the Carthaginians to use their slight advantage in numbers and outflank me. I won the scouting battle, which gave me the advantage of seeing where the Carthaginian elephants were so I could avoid them with my cavalry.
The positions at deployment:

The Macedonian right – light horse on the far right with light foot behind. Then a unit of Thracians and two units of pike phalanx either side of a unit of (Persian looking) hoplites:

The Macedonian left – hypastists (elite phalanx) then Persian allied cavalry, Companion (impact) cavalry and Skythian horse archers:

The Carthaginian right (or left from my perspective) – Numidian light horse and Gallic cavalry on the far right, then a unit of light foot slingers, two units of Gallic warband then two units of veteran spearmen:

The Carthaginian left (or right from my perspective) – behind the veteran spearmen are Carthaginian citizen cavalry, then to their left are elephants, Spanish foot, Numidian light horse and then javelinmen:

On the first turn I moved my cavalry forward on the left. This left them just out of normal charge range of the Carthaginian cavalry opposite. However, the Carthaginians got good action dice and used a double 6 to give two bonuses – one for movement and one for combat, and charged in with their Gallic cavalry. This was a bold and risky move, as they were charging two units of cavalry. The initial combat was indecisive, but next turn the Macedonian numbers would give them a big advantage. Retreat may have been the better option for the Gallic cavalry.

Most of the foot in the centre advanced. End of turn one:

In turn two the Gallic cavalry holds out against two units of Macedonians, but they have suffered a hit and so will roll less combat dice next turn. The light cavalry also engage on this flank, with losses on both sides.

Both sides advance in the centre and right, with good action dice allowing battle lines to be maintained.

At the end of turn two, the two battle lines are within charge range. The Carthaginian Citizen cavalry head over to support the Gallic cavalry on their right. The next turn could well prove decisive.

There is frantic cavalry action in turn three. The Macedonian Persian cavalry defeat the Carthaginian Gallic cavalry and pursue. This leaves their flank exposed to the Carthaginian Citizen cavalry who charge and rout the Persians. After their pursuit, they are then charged in the flank themselves by the Macedonian Companion cavalry. They just about survive, but at the end of the turn the Carthaginian losses mean they must take an army morale test, and this is too much for the Carthaginian Citizen cavalry, who rout from the field.
Also on this flank the light cavalry fight to mutual destruction.

In the centre the Macedonians get good action dice, allowing two units of phalanx and the hoplites to engage the Gallic foot and Carthaginian spearmen. Fresh Pike in the open will beat pretty much any opponents frontally, and they win these fights. The Carthaginian elephants charge against the pikes on the Macedonian right. The pikes stand firm and rout the elephants. In their rout they cause a hit on the Spanish foot.
The two opposing units of light horse face each other and are both allocated an action dice – the Numidians get a 5 and the Macedonians get a 6, which would give them a combat bonus. The Numidians decide not to charge (as they would be facing more combat dice) so they shoot then move away. This frees up the Macedonian light horse to move and shoot the Spanish foot (with a bonus shooting dice) and they rout them.
At the end of turn three it's looking pretty hopeless for Hannibal and the Carthaginians:

In turn four the combination of a flank charge from the Thracians and frontal contact from pike and hoplites routs the rightmost unit of Carthaginian veteran spearmen. This is enough to break the Carthaginian army.

So it is a victory for Alexander's Macedonians. The Macedonians had the better luck on their action dice and combat dice, but the Carthaginans were outnumbered in cavalry on the Macedonian left, and their infantry could not stand up against the pikes in the centre. The Carthaginians had one more unit and their foot were more flexible and manoeuvrable, but the narrowness of the battlefield meant they could not utilise this to their advantage.

Mark,

Good to see someone else took up the challenge on this one rather than just trot out their own prejudices.

I think you may over state the effect of terrain. It looks to me that it shows again that the Macedonians have the better shout at this.

Good report, nice pictures.

Trebian

Thanks for the report. I would love to read more Alexander vs Hannibal reports.

I also posted an AAR along with OOB but it may have gotten lost amongst the other posts of what turned out to be the second page. I didn't know how to post pictures at the time so didn't take any. The battle turned out to be something of a draw.

Thanks for posting yours as part of a separate thread. I guess I could go back and recreate the action and do the same now that I have figured out the picture posting part. What resolution did you use to get smaller size pictures in your post?

I resize them in photobucket to a width of 600.

For the sake of completeness on this thread, here's the link to my AAR:

link

One thing that is hard to create would be something like the Romans tactics against pike phalanx at Pydna. Drawing the Pike on to uneven ground and having a plan to attack them while the are disrupted just won't happen in most miniature games where we have perfect knowledge of the battlefield.

Hard to simulate what tricks either Hannibal or Alexander would have up their sleeves for dealing with their opponent.

Hannibal needs a more clever deplyment

But Alexander wouldn't fight Hannibal if he was on more clever ground or looked like he had a more clever deployment.

As for Roman tactics v a phalanx, – they took quite a few years to work out how to do that properly.

Wot, no Punic tricks ? Not even an ambush from the woods on the flank ?
Only shows that your opponent was no Hannibaal …..

Hannibal was at his best during his big three battles. As Dagwood suggests, there should be an ambush or other stratagem to give him the edge. I'd suggest using the Cannae army where Hannibal had a higher proportion of Celts and some woods to hide them in.

I am not so sure Hannibal wouldn't out maneuver Alexander. Darious did. And he's no Hannibal.

Hannibal is the master of stratagem, whereas Alexander generally goe straight for the heart of the opponent. To replicate H v A you would have to allow Hannibal a crafty move such as has been suggested.
Hannibal's infantry are more flexible than the phalanx so I expect he would try and hold the phalanx with Celts and Spaniards for long enough to flank it with the Africans. The weakness of the Alexandrians is thenlack of flexible infantry to,protect the phalanx on the flank.
The Macedonian cavalry look a lot stronger than the Carthaginia. Perhaps the Numidian light cavalry could operate here to wear downnthe Companions and Thessalians before tackling them with the Celts, Spaniards and aafricans.

Hannibal usually has to resort to stratagems as he's fighting a better equppied numerically stronger opponent. Having said that there's a direct correlation between having Numidian Cavalry and winning in the Punic Wars.

When comparing the two generals you have to consider how they would get to the point where they were fighting. Alexander would not fall for one of Hannibal's stratagems. He simply wouldn't fight unless he knew he was going to win. Don't forget that he fights several of his battles when the opponent apparently has the advantage of terrain. Hannibal would probably be left in the situation of Fabian, – avoiding combat to keep his army in being.

If you did give Hannibal the chance of an ambush then you'd have to give Alexander the chance of springing it with light troops or simply counter-ambushing.

As for Darius outmanoeuvring Alexander…..well I don't really see it. And don't under estimate Darius. He ruled and extended a vast empire, right up to the point he hit Alexander. To write him off because he lost to Alexander is like saying Napoleon was rubbish because Wellington beat him.

Played Macedonian v Carthaginian many a time in various WRG/DBM tournaments I used to play (I had Carthaginian), the armies are both wargamers' favourites and pretty evenly matched in my experience.

IN DBM at any rate the cavalry battle is usually a stalemate as both armies have enough of it (compared to say Romans), the Macedonian phalanx has the edge but its expensive per frontage space so the Macedonian heavies find they have good Carthaginian infantry on their flanks – and its a race to see if they can break through frontally before the Carthaginians hammer in their flanks.

Great report.

Yeah. in terms of the actual debate it's meaningless (and I favor Alexander), but it looked like a fun and well-played game.