"Failed Mission to Rescue Foley" Topic

…A day after Sunni militants posted a video showing Mr. Foley being beheaded, officials described what they called a "complicated operation" in which several dozen commandos were dropped into a remote area of Syria where American intelligence agencies believed several hostages were being held by the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. The officials said they believed a number of the terrorists were killed in the operation.

But when the Special Operations team arrived on the scene, the hostages were not there. Officials said the commandos exchanged fire with militants, and one American was slightly wounded when one of the United States aircraft came under fire.

All of the team members were evacuated successfully. "It was not ultimately successful because the hostages were not present at the location of the operation," a senior administration official said, speaking on background about the mission. "We obviously wish this had been successful."

* not revealed: number of hostages thought to be there
* not revealed: the location, other than a remote spot
* US force was "a joint force… that included members from all of the military services"
* "supported overhead by helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft"
* "a good number" of ISIS casualties

link

Chalk another one to 'faulty intelligence.'

Though to be fair, accurate intel isn't an exact science and is hard to come by.

Kinda reminds me of the Son Tay raid.

It was not faulty intel; the hostages had been there a short time before. What they did not have was on-going, real time intel.

Agreed 79th. And in a place like the ISIS controlled "caliphate," attaining that sort of intelligence is tenuously difficult at best, impossible more often than not. You can only learn so much via drones and satellite.

Hopefully they get a shot at the other reporter before he suffers a similar fate.

Could this have provoked Foley's murder?

Could this have provoked Foley's murder?

The murder was always going to happen. While they ransomed the French relatively quickly, from what the Agency and family say, initial ransom contacts never when beyond first contact.

Always remember that all politics is local. The video of the murder is not for us. It is for IS supporters to reassure them that they mean business, and to reenforce the trope of the USA as the enemy. It is for the people in the controlled areas to show them what happens to enemies.

JohnG

Why are we hearing about this? Shouldn't black ops stay black for a long time. Honestly I think politicians give out way too much info to score political points.

Xin

Very much like Son Tay … And we all know intel is very perishable … it could go bad fast … Usually intel has to be thought to be about 75% "good" for this type of op to go in. IIRC, the UBL Raid was only about 60%, but it was obvisouly worth the risk. However, like at Son Tay, as one former Navy Seal said on CCN, and I completely agree, from a Grunt's POV … The Spec Ops teams went in, deep, killed some bad guys. Only had one minor WIA … You can't really call that a failure. From the guys on the ground POV, it was not a bad day … I hope after quickly searching thru the ISIS KIAs, and in the area for intel (it's in the RANGER handbook). They booby trapped the bodies and any nearby structures. And the CAP that was flying SPT/CAS found some good places to drop most of their ordinance … And yes, this was very much for the US public, for the US Government to release the information on this very classified op. To let the masses know that the current civilain leadership tried to save the hostages … after ISIS released the beheading video … It's almost protocol … And yes, it does score points … with elections are always being kept in mind … it's how the "system" works … for better or worse …

I'm curious how such a scenario would work as a game, in that one side has an objective that it turns out is impossible to meet. Do you have a secret scoring system where the SOF are really just trying to get out with minimal casualties, but they don't know that is their actual objective in the game, or do you say sometimes the best you can play for is a draw?

The raid was mentioned on social media on July 3/4, by someone in Raqqa. According to their account, first the camp's AA defences were destroyed, then the camp itself was assaulted by men from 'silent helicopters.' Interestingly, the account said that the attackers were 'American and Jordanian.' They reported 5 IS fighters killed. Ironically, the camp was named 'Usama Bin Laden.'

One other point worth noting is that James Foley was captured in 2012 in Binesh, South-West of Aleppo, which means he was very unlikely to have been initially taken by ISIS. There are reports that the original kidnappers were Liwa Dawood, and that they passed Foley on to IS as part of the process of joining the IS. It's clear that IS have other hostages and are willing to buy any held by other groups.

There was a ransom demand, but it was $132 USD million. LINK

I'm curious how such a scenario would work as a game, in that one side has an objective that it turns out is impossible to meet.

Make it variable – only the ISIS player knows if the hostages are there or not.

Or, have the hostages start on table, and ISIS objective is to get them off the table.

Perhaps if only the umpire knew where the hostages (and their immediate guards) were. Then both IS and US players would be subject to the fog of war?

Object of the game: first to find them and get them off the board.

A bit more info on the raid, based on the information by the 'local' involved and the location. Interestingly, he repeats the claim that some were Jordanian.
telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11049814/The-failed-US-mission-to-try-and-rescue-James-Foley-from-Islamic-State-terrorists.html

I'd question the fact they were on the ground for hours, especially after they found no hostages. I'd also question why they parachuted from their silent helicopters, I thought fast roping was the usual SOP.

I've rappeled and fast roped from choppers and parachuted for aircraft … I feel with the new chutes, dropping in low or high and landing silently is more stealthy and you actualy can be more combat ready more quickly … IMO … Based on my experiences … Roping out of any chopper, it has to hover at a fairly low altitude for a very brief period. And even stealth choppers make some noise … But generally you can land silently with a chute … As far as Jordanians coming along, US SF has trained them and they may have been useful as it was in their backyard …

The parachuting reference is journalistic over-exuberance in my view as one of the administration officials mentioned the assaulters being "dropped from the helicopters" on the target. Why would you bother parachuting- HAHO presumably- when you have just flattened the local anti aircraft capability with an airstrike which is guaranteed to wake up the neighbours?

The only possible reason I can see would be to land at an off-set DZ away from the X to preserve the element of surprise. Even if this was the case (and they hadn't woken everyone up with the fast air), I wouldn't want to be walking around northern Syria on foot- the longer they spend on the infil, the greater the chance of compromise and the teams getting bumped.

Most likely the assaulters didn't even fast rope- on many previous ops the helos have landed to deposit the teams. Either way they are on the ground fast and hitting the objective. As for the three hour claim- I understand the assaulters aim for 30 minutes exposure on the target. Even on sites where an extensive SSE was required, the helos are generally heading back within 45 minutes. It's only when something goes drastically wrong that anyone would be on the ground for that long e.g Extortion 17.

Jordanians? No idea. Not outside the realms of possibility but the assaulters would not be bringing any spare weight without a really good reason (and if they did use the "Silent Hawk" stealth helos, those things have- allegedly- significantly less payload capacity than a standard MH-60 due to the extra weight of the stealth bolt-ons). I guess he may have been a terp which would make sense?

parachuting reference is journalistic over-exuberance

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story … Dropping away from the DZ is a valid tactic … but they initially wanted to get in an out quickly. If given the option after the the DZ/LZ was preped with CAS, etc. … And it appeared ADA, etc. is eliminated, etc. I'd rather just exit the chopper at a few feet AGL onto the LZ. Of course with all this speculation, none of us were there. So maybe we don't know the whole story. And from OPSEC probably shouldn't … Again as for the Jordanians … never let the truth get in the way of a good story …