"FIW Skirmish/RPG: Scale, Rules, Figures? " Topic

Hello veterans,

As a person considering starting a second project, I've been looking into French and Indian War, 1:1, man vs. man, and I've researched recommended rulesets.

I'd like your opinion on a couple of questions.

For ease of entry (I don't even plan to paint right away, I just want to play), what scale would you recommend, what ruleset would you suggest, and which inexpensive figures would you get?

My stipulations are: Individually based, small skirmish (4 – 8 figures per side), small area (card table), individual activation, can scale down to man-vs-man/RPG, and especially minimal cost of entry in the way of figure cost, quickstart rules, labor/prep/research. And to throw in a curveball, mostly wilderness encounters, in steep gullies. :)

1/32 or 1/72 "army men" plastic? Prime/wash/play? Piles of books and felt/fleece remnant? Floral foam shapes? Bulk trees?

The ruleset threads are numerous but go ahead and suggest a very specific one, if you'd like. I'd like something that utilizes the many available melee weapons, and has almost an action-movie feel, but plays in about 45 minutes to two hours on a card table. I'll pretend the figures have (all of) the weapons and are in appropriate poses for now.

Also, what more complex ruleset would you recommend for eventually evolving to (or augmenting) the simple rules?

Thanks. I think I might like to try this era and have a good idea of what I'd like to replicate, I'm just not sure about how big, and what's simple (yet detailed enough).

Lastly, is there a "popular" scale and ruleset for FIW skirmish, in general?

Cheers.

P.S. Is this subject considered SYW board only? Should FIW skirmish crosspost elsewhere? Thanks again, gamers.

Super Extra Credit: Is there an Ambush Alley/Force on Force type system/mod available for FIW skirmish/RPG?

Thanks very much for the reply.

Not as a bump, but because it took me a minute or three to compile it, here's a list of various rules recommended here on TMP both for large-scale FIW skirmish and for smaller encounters.

I'd be interested to hear opinions about any and all:

*The Sword and the Flame
*Muskets & Tomahawks
*This Very Ground
Smooth & Rifled
*Muskets & Mohawks
*Long Rifle
*Fire and Steel
*Among the Warparties
*Sharp Practice (Longue Carabine)
Black Powder Battles
Brother Against Brother
Argad

I'd be interested in starting very small (4 – 8 figures) and possibly expanding to like platoon level, at most, after a while. Long Rifle, then Muskets & Mohawks?

Are there small-scale North American/FIW wilderness skirmish rules for Black Powder? The public library has the core ruleset book, iirc.

*Most interested in these, because: Multiple votes, or other personal criteria (same system, oft-recommended elsewhere, activation size/system, known respondent, "popular" ruleset).

28's has the best variety these days though I did mine in 15's. link

There's a variant of The Sword and the Flame called The Sword in the Forest link which is what I've used but that's for 20ish man units. Muskets and Tomohawks link is similar in scope but a very different set of rules – it's probably more flavorful than the former.

Brother Against Brother is an ACW set but has a nice section for FIW/American Revolution. They have some really nice mechanisms that I find enjoyable. (Movement is for officers, all the men he commands are set up anywhere around him)

There's also a new supplement for Black Powder focusing on the American Revolution that will have much of what you need for FIW.

All of the above though are for unit sized games – nothing so intimate as what you are looking for. Well, 1:1 is there but not 4-8 per side. They all handle many more figures than that.

Maybe mod those Legends of the Old West from Warhammer Historicals: link

There are some very nice plastic 54mm figures out there. I use the 60mm Jenkins figures for my FIW set up. I think the two hour wargames rules might be what you are looking for. I think they are called long rifle. They make two rules for FIW, one skirmish and one larger scale. Growing from a skirmish game to a larger game would be easy with these rules.

Matthew

Wargames Factory is about to release 28 mm plastic Indians and militia that might work for the subject nicely. However, they will probably be sold in boxes of 30 models, which might be a bit excessive considering the given specifications.

Thanks for the additional replies, players. Much appreciated. I'm leaning toward THW's two titles, to start, but still open to suggestions. I can see getting about ten different rulesets, eventually. :)

Still very torn on the subject of scale.

I'm also looking into getting some Osprey or similar books, either from the library or the hobby store.

As long as I'm being so inquisitive, can you also recommend a specific title which details the kit, weapons, vehicles and tactics of this specific conflict, both Native and Colonial (e.g. musket, long rifle, bayonet, tomahawk, saber, war club, horse, canoe, cannon)?

Muskets and Tomahawks has a strong role playing element to it, as the officers get special talents and have a special mission they need to accomplish in each battle. It is more like 20-30 figures a side but I imagine it could work scaled down as well.

I would definitely recommend "Long Rifle" from Two Hour Wargames. It sounds like exactly what you are looking for. Pretty much designed to reproduce the small scenes from The Last of the Mohicans.

For a small table, say 3' X 3' or 2' X 4', with 4 to 8 figures, would 28mm or larger (even up to 54mm) actually fit?

Also, do the THW rules have a recommended scale, or would I just scale them according to play area and figure size?

The THW games all recommend a 3 x 3 surface and 28mm figures. You would probably need to go at least 4 x 4 for 54mm. Another thought, depending on your budget. Look at the 40mm offerings from Sash and Saber and Miniature Service Center.

Muskets and Tomahawks has a strong role playing element to it, as the officers get special talents and have a special mission they need to accomplish in each battle. It is more like 20-30 figures a side but I imagine it could work scaled down as well.

M&T needs 20-30 figures a aside as a minimum. I don't think it will scale down at all. Not unless you want a VERY quick game!

We have a house rule set that we use for the AWI for our 40mm Trident Design figures that could also be used for the FIW. It could be used with very small group of figures to major battles and also can be used with large groups of players to solo games. Could be used with 28mm figures also.
Send me an e-mail if you would like a copy and I will send you one to look over. msc1d@aol.com

While I have enjoyed Sharpe Practice and This Very Ground, these are unit based games. THe units could be as small a 6 figs but it is more of platoon scale battles.

Don't overlook Song of Drums and Shakos; while written for Napoleonics, it works very well with any H&M period, especially with the More Drums and Shakos supplement.

But as others have written, Long Rifle, by THW is probably what you are looking for, as it will have the role-playing lite rules you specified. Also, don't worry about the size of the table being too small. In a dense woods environment, ranges would be very very short.

Grommet37;
I have just the rule set for you. I created it and released it to great success last year at Historicon and won a PELA Award. I also won another one this year. Please check out my website at: battlefieldgamedesigns.com

It includes 12 scenarios based on actual skirmishes. You can tailor the game in many ways and the rules describe how to do it. It also includes plastic artillery templates and over 300 coloured figure cards to use in the game to represent each figure. The plan is to extend my rules to include battalions with a very simple mechanic.

Since it was published last year, it has sold out its original print run and is currently in its second print run. In fact it is at the printers as I type this. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me through my website or here:

battlefield_designs{at}rogers{dot}com

The best figures on the market are at Galloping Major Miniatures out of the UK. Lance Cawkwell is the owner and sculptor and is a major sponsor in my rule set. Terrain can be found at Acheson Creations out of the USA and Craig Acheson is also the owner, sculptor and another major sponsor in my rule set. Both companies are great to deal with.

Regards,
Hitman

I like big figures, but you may want to consider 1/72 plastics if you are just going to wash and play.

look here plasticsoldierreview.com

Or you can play now with 1/72 while you paint forces in the same or another scale (if you would like to eventually play with painted figures).

I'd be very interested in seeing your wash and play results as I have been tempted to paint just a few colors and then wash the figure.

Wargames Factory is about to release 28 mm plastic Indians and militia that might work for the subject nicely. However, they will probably be sold in boxes of 30 models, which might be a bit excessive considering the given specifications.

I found these, which would be perfect for my needs. I'll just keep the extra figs in the box till I move up from micro-skirmish to platoon action.

link

link

I'm still searching their site for more FIW announcements…

Grommett – check in at our forum. We have a whole board devoted to using the rules for alternate periods. If there's not something on it specifically regarding the FIW, you could certainly get a lot of well-informed input on how to modify the rules to suit your needs.

ambushalleygames.com/forum

All the best,

Shawn.

Shawn,

Much appreciated. Force on Force is the only set of rules I've read so far, and Ambush Alley sounds a lot like what I'd like to play: wilderness fireteam-level skirmish. I think I could even use the campaign rules to create two regular and four irregular forces: British, French, BA Rangers, NF Voyageurs, Iroquois, Algonquin/Huron.

Could be fun to try.

Cheers.

Ordered THW's two titles: Long Rifle and Muskets & Mohawks. Looking forward to checking them out.

Next I need to order some figures. Still debating. ;)

Grommet,

Please contact me about figures for sale. TMP link

jmcp1650 at comcast dot net

link

Jim

Check sizes – there's small and there's big. Mines are perry and conquest which are midgets compared to galloping major but dwarf the likes of rand.
Doesn't matter much with Indians and rangers Tec but you don't want to look as if Miss Cora (or was it miss Alice) could sling Magua over her shoulder and run away with him.

latto6plus2 advised:

Check sizes – there's small and there's big. Mines are perry and conquest which are midgets compared to galloping major but dwarf the likes of rand.
Doesn't matter much with Indians and rangers Tec but you don't want to look as if Miss Cora (or was it miss Alice) could sling Magua over her shoulder and run away with him.

Good to know. Thanks for the heads-up. Lately, I'm leaning a bit toward Conquest, but I still have Galloping Major and the plastic Wargames Factory figures as contenders.

Conquest are gorgeous and great to paint but they are wee. Check out the perry AWI range for "civilised" Indians, settlers and militia types.
I'm doing something like you're planning; I'm at the more than enough for Long Rifle not quite enough for Muskets & Tomahawks stage (too many Indians!)