"TSATF Firing from Walls or Barricades" Topic

p27 of the rules
C.FIGURES THAT MAY NOT FIRE
f. Figures standing on walls or barricades

There is no other reference in the rules that I can find for this. Does anyone know why this is the case?

Would a wagon be classed as a barricade? doesn't seem right to me.
If you can't fire does that mean if natives (zulus) are charging over a wall or barricade they can't throw spears before contact(as this uses the firing charts)? this doesn't seem right to me either.
Maybe understanding the reason for the rule will answer my questions.
Thanks
Daniel

Hey Daniel,

I think that this is referring to the procedure in which figures go over a wall over a period of turns. First, the unit stops at it. Next, the unit gets on top of it. And lastly, the unit jumps over it. So I think the rule is saying that when you're in the process of going over, you may not fire. Let me know if that makes sense.

Have a good one,

J

Daniel,

Just what jbfrage stated this is a reference to the three stage process of crossing an obstacle or wall. Of course Larry Bromm has always stated his rules are guidelines so if you think this does not feel right to your game go ahead and allow units crossing walls to shoot/throw their weapons.

From my perspective I think what TSATF is attempting to do here is demonstrate that troops in the process of climbing/leaping over an obstacle or wall are not in the position to accurately level a rifle/musket or toss a spear.

Thanks guys for the input. Just not sure how that marries up.
If in the process of a charge where the charging unit has already stopping in front of the barricade for one turn and this turn charges over the wall to an opponent directly on the other side there is no fire phase in between anyway for the charger. The charger has already suffered the penalty of having to sit a turn in front of the wall and being fired at so them throwing spears to complete the next phase of the charge over the wall next turn seems reasonable. If a unit is moving over the wall they wouldn't stop to fire on top of it anyway. So the only reason I can see for this rule is to stop someone purposefully getting to the top of the wall and stopping there and firing in the fire phase. Doesn't appear to give much advantage because they now lose the cover of the wall. Unless there is some advantage I'm missing. None I can see from a native perspective.

For Imperial troops I could see one where there are troops on the wall and troops in front of the wall 2 ranks thick so that the wall troops provide additional fire power over the other ranks. Again, I'm sure this was done in reality if it did provide additional firepower so not sure why the restriction within the rules other than maybe its too powerful?

Daniel,

It may be that allowing the attacking troops crossing an obstacle is too powerful. It all depends is suppose. Another consideration is that there is not a time scale per se in TSATF. The three stage crossing of a wall could be seen is a matter of seconds. All you can do is run some games and see how it plays out for your scenario. Again it is your game and the rules are there to provide as much structure as you want.

IIRC, Brom and his play testers played a Rorkes Drift scenario over and over again. They found that without the three turn barricade process, the Zulus too easily overwhelmed their opponents. But you should play the rules the way you want to play them.

Nick's correct. The stop-on-top-of-the-wall thing really only has Rorke's Drift, or something similar in mind.

It is a good point to make. I am going to run The Sword in Africa this coming weekend and there will be a walled compound that will figure into the battle. You want the occupants to at least have a chance. I have also heard the critique that TSATF tends to favor the "Native" forces so the rule about crossing walls might have been a reaction to that.

Thanks all. It now makes a little more sense to me. Thanks for all the input.

kallman said: "I have also heard the critique that TSATF tends to favor the "Native" forces so the rule about crossing walls might have been a reaction to that."

And Larry Brom's answer (from The Birth of Some Rules):

"I had been a subscriber to Jack Scruby's publications with many home grown rules and game concepts and in 1965 joined Doug Johnson's Colonial Society Bulletin (now Savage and Soldier) that offered additional colonial gaming ideas. To this point the only published set of gaming rules I had ever seen was a reprint of H.G.Wells' Little Wars circa 1913. Then, in the late '60's, I came across (whether in a magazine or a booklet) a set of Colonial Game Rules from England. I have no idea what they were titled but they were a well-crafted little set in the classic style of British game rules of that era. I had acquired more colonial figures by this time so I coerced my one gaming friend into having a go at colonial gaming. We eagerly played 4 or 5 games with this wonderful new rule set, having great fun but then realized that neither of us wanted to be the native force ! Where was the challenge ? Once the forces of the Empire were formed and ready and the Dervish or Zulus got in range, it was all over. Historic, but discouraging! No wonder no one played "colonials", no one was doing rules, and there weren't many figures available."

But as many have said here and Dad encourages, please feel free to adapt TSATF to your and your gaming companions' preferences. It's almost a "given" among TSATF gamers………

That is a wonderful quote Lili. Of course the beauty of TSATF is it's flexibility and adaptability.

In the 30 years I have played this game there has been much discussion over this. Units that charge may not fire. If they charge a defended barricade, wall, wagon etc., then they follow the procedure in the rules. They stop at the wall, next movement turn they are on the wall, then they complete the charge if pass the die roll. Natives with spears throw them if they complete the charge and before melee begins. If the unit is moving over an undefended barricade it simply drops the high die and moves over if there is enough movement. Units are allowed to charge obstacles without taking stragglers to get the extra die. If there is not enough movement to cross the barricade the unit stays on its side and uses it as cover. I have not, in all the games I have played/run, seen a non charging unit end up on top of the wall. In the rare occurrence that it does, it can of course shoot. But the rule change has natives throwing spears only on charge completion. Larry assumes that any native unit that gets that close is trying to engage in melee.