Old Contemptibles | 09 Aug 2014 3:44 p.m. PST |
Sixty nine years ago today the plutonium bomb Fat Man was dropped by the silverplate B-29 "Bock's Car" on the city of Nagasaki, Japan. At approximately 11:00 am, local time Fat Man exploded at 1,840 feet above Nagasaki and approximately 500 feet south of the Mitsubishi Steel and Armament Works with an estimated force of 22,000 tons of TNT. As smooth as the Hiroshima mission was the Nagasaki mission was anything but. Just before take off the Pilot Major Charles W. Sweeny and mission commander and weaponeer, Navy Commander Fred Ashworth were informed that the transfer pump on one of the fuel tanks was not working and it would take several hours to replace it. The decision was made to continue without the repair. There was no fanfare. No photographers, no film crews, no photos of Sweeny waving from the cockpit. Nobody except 509th personnel. "Bock's Car" was suppose to rendezvous with the photograph plane "Big Stink" just south of Kyushu. After circling for 45 minutes, "Bock's Car" went on without "Big Stink." The target was the city of Kokura. The weather plane radioed that the town was under a thick cloud cover and the smoke from a nearby city that had been bombed the night before had significantly reduced visibility. Under orders to make a visual bombing only, the plane circled around while the bombardier tried to get a visual of the target. In the meantime fighters and AAA were becoming an issue. The decision was made to proceed to the secondary target, Nagasaki. The weather over Nagasaki was no better. The aircraft circled and circled with no view. Commander Ashworth authorized the use of radar for the bombing. But then there was a clearing in the clouds. Finally Bombardier Kermit Beahan could see the target and released Fat Man. Now getting home became the crews only mission. There was not enough fuel to reach Tinian. The nearest airfield was Okinawa. The radioman tried to contact air and sea rescue, just in case. But no one responded. They had shut down for the night, figuring that the mission was long over. When they reached Okinawa, repeated attempts to raise the tower for landing instructions went unanswered. Sweeney watched other planes taking off and landing, but knew he didn't have enough gas for protracted circling. The crew set off flares and finally somebody on the ground noticed. "Bock's Car" landed at 2:00 P.M. local time. The number two engine ran out of fuel while they were on the runway. They had a total of seven gallons of fuel left. They refueled, took off for Tinian, and landed without further incident at 11:39 P.M. local time. No one was on hand to greet them. There was no ceremony. No medals were given out. No one had even thought to have food ready for the famished crews who hadn't eaten in almost twenty-four hours. |
deephorse | 09 Aug 2014 4:20 p.m. PST |
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HistoryPhD | 09 Aug 2014 4:39 p.m. PST |
This will smoke them out of the woodwork. |
Ditto Tango 2 9 Echo | 09 Aug 2014 5:15 p.m. PST |
Rallynow knows, he started the Hiroshima topic – TMP link DDT |
Happy Little Trees | 09 Aug 2014 5:34 p.m. PST |
Seventy years ago, the US Forest Service and the US Wartime Advertising Council released posters featuring Smokey Bear for the first time. Happy Birthday Smokey! Remember! "Only you can prevent forest fires!" |
Charlie 12 | 09 Aug 2014 6:11 p.m. PST |
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jpattern2 | 09 Aug 2014 6:52 p.m. PST |
Fifty years ago today, Billboard's #1 song in the US: YouTube link |
tuscaloosa | 09 Aug 2014 9:56 p.m. PST |
I remember delivering the newspaper with Nixon's resignation on the front page, when I was 10 or 11 or so… Don't remember Nagasaki, though. And have never gamed it. (Nagasaki, not Nixon's resignation). |
ochoin | 09 Aug 2014 10:29 p.m. PST |
Back in Nagasaki Where the fellers chew tobaccy And the women wicky-wacky Woo. |
HistoryPhD | 10 Aug 2014 6:18 a.m. PST |
Nixon's resignation would make a good game, tuscaloosa |
Legion 4 | 10 Aug 2014 7:55 a.m. PST |
I think pretty much everything that needs to be said about the US dropping A-bombs in WWII has been said, on the previous thread … and now Rally's header post … I think we should move on … |
HistoryPhD | 10 Aug 2014 8:48 p.m. PST |
And said and said and said. And then said a whole lot more. |
zoneofcontrol | 10 Aug 2014 9:31 p.m. PST |
Then again this is a discussion forum. I also note that some people are not comfortable with others discussing facts and opinions. Personally, I've never understood that. |
Cuchulainn | 11 Aug 2014 4:12 a.m. PST |
No zoneofcontrol that's not what people are saying here. We had this debate/argument a few days ago over the bombing of Hiroshima. There's a big difference between people not wanting to discuss facts and opinions, and someone rehashing the exact same debate under a different heading. Maybe you missed the thread on Hiroshima? You can read it here: TMP link |
Legion 4 | 11 Aug 2014 7:38 a.m. PST |
Many subjects tend to get too polarized … And many have to understand, no matter what you say, you probably won't change some people's minds. And that shouldn't be your motivation … regardless. And as we know just stating "facts", those facts may be skewed/polarized as well … |
zoneofcontrol | 11 Aug 2014 8:16 a.m. PST |
Hi Chuchulainn- I did not miss either thread. I read and followed up on both. Also, I will stand by what I said in my post above. I welcome anyone to participate in any thread and discussion. (Note that the owner and editor of this site has final say as to the what and the how of discussions.) The protected and sometimes limited freedom of speech does not have a minimum or maximum number attached to it. That is what many of those combatants and non-combatants died fighting over. Just like many before them and since. To wish to limit the use of those freedoms seems odd and uncomfortable to me. I respect and cherish both your freedoms and mine. Please partake as you see fit. Mike |
Cuchulainn | 11 Aug 2014 10:37 a.m. PST |
Hi zoc: I never once tried to limit anyone's freedom, I merely questioned the point of starting a thread on Nagasaki, when the subject had already been done to death on another thread a few days ago. |
Legion 4 | 12 Aug 2014 7:02 a.m. PST |
Of course someone could always bring up about the allied bombings of Dresden … Even if it was not nuc'd but hit with conventional munitions. I'm sure that would stir up a lot of controversy as well … |
badger22 | 12 Aug 2014 7:26 a.m. PST |
Actualy Legion that is my stock response to the horror of nukes. I just dont get why is is so much more horrible toget vaped by a nuke than to slow roast in a fire storm. both totaly suck. And I bet is sucked big time to get blown apart on the Arizina. Sort of like the big outcry about gun violence. I dont think a single parent on hearing thier kid got stabbed to death is going so say, well at least it wasnt a gun that did it. Owen |
Weasel | 12 Aug 2014 11:23 a.m. PST |
Given that nuclear weapons meant a change in global politics and had to be taken into account in cold war posturings between "the big boys", I'd say it IS a big deal. Yeah, dying from a carpet bombing and dying from a nuclear blast makes you equally dead, but nuclear weapons changed how we think about destructive power and potential. |
jpattern2 | 12 Aug 2014 1:24 p.m. PST |
Weasel +1 Not to mention that fallout and residual radiation are hardly trivial concerns. |
Legion 4 | 12 Aug 2014 2:56 p.m. PST |
Either way … you're still dead … and if it is a nuc strike … many more will die afterwards … for some time … |
tuscaloosa | 12 Aug 2014 3:28 p.m. PST |
"Sort of like the big outcry about gun violence. I dont think a single parent on hearing thier kid got stabbed to death is going so say, well at least it wasnt a gun that did it." You make a good analogy between nuclear weapons and gun violence. Nukes kill and destroy just like conventional bombing raids, but it would take weeks of conventional bombing to equal what a nuke does in five minutes. Similarly, wackos can use either guns or knives if they want to go on a killing spree, but a wacko with a gun will kill many more people than a wacko with a knife. Again, it's not the fact that death/destruction occur as a result, but how much easier it is to cause that death/destruction. |
jpattern2 | 12 Aug 2014 6:06 p.m. PST |
And with that, Tuscaloosa demonstrates his flawless rhetorical jujutsu. Congratulations, Sensei! |
Legion 4 | 13 Aug 2014 8:18 a.m. PST |
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