"PBI WW2 rules" Topic

Just a quick note that the new version of PBI are coming along quite nicely. We hope to get them done by October 2014(???!!). The new version will not outdate the 2000 or 2006 built companies (just a few changes to points etc.).

What is PBI I hear you not ask? WW2 on a grid of 64 six inch squares, upon a 4x4 foot table. Each square represents 60x60metres. Movement is by complete square. Area weapons hit a square rather than a chosen base. The tanks and men are represented on a 1 to 1 ratio. A standard platoon would be 6 bases each of three riflemen. Three bases each of an LMG team. A command base of two figures.

There are quite a few play testers worldwide especially a group from SELWG who are working hard.
I am happy to give an insight into any particular mechanism along the likes of "how is X dealt with in PBI?"
If this is all just taking up space then I apologise.

thanks

What's PBI stand for?

Pat

Whoops. Guilty of not being clear. it is the British way of referring to infantry as "Poor Bloody Infantry" as in "who is going to take the hill?" "it will be us the PBI".

I made a similar mistake at Historicon some years ago by calling the pre-game "recce(pronounced "wrecky") instead of Recon. Common language and all that.

martin

Thanks!

Pat

I like the sounds of the mechanics you describe Martin. Is it company level or platoon?

Is firing handled with d6? Would it be possible to hear how the shooting mechanism works and briefly how morale is handled?

And please don't apologize for taking up space; it's truly refreshing to be talking gaming here

Thanks

What's wrong with the last PBI?????????????

A couple of pics of non standard PBI forces from a current game of PBI (version 2006) on my blog (P.B.Eye-Candy) …

They are from a North African encounter between ex Vichy French and Italian desert patrol troops …

The two main French platoons are configured exactly as Martin describes above, the Italians, specialised motorised troops, are more unusual in their organisation.

PBI is one of my favourite games. The zonal table top coupled with square-by-square activation makes the game break down into localised firefights … with unpredictable pulses of action which can turn a game.

Shooting is a buckets of dice type mechanism which, after a saving roll, often does very little. Martin has likened this, in the past, as lots of wild firing and noise but most of the targets staying well out of the way.

With players who know the rules, games take around 2 hours … but as most of my games are multi-player (often with some friends who are less up to speed) they usually take the full evening. That said, it is genuinely an evening game and you should get it finished inside a regular 'club night'.

Recommended.

Phil
(figures in the pictures are Peter Pig, vehicles a mix of Piggie, BF, Skytrex, QRF etc.)

There was a free "lite" version that was very easy to play, don't know if it is still available.

Always love those pics Phil. I remember considering getting them after a chat with you here but chickened out in the end. I really like the description of the various mechanics And I've a large 15mm collection gathering dust (actually most of the Germans are Martins excellent Peter Pig's range) so I'd like to try out these rules. Should I hold out for the new rules ie are there many changes in the new ones planned

Lite version would be welcomed alright

Panda,

I've got PBI and recommend them (they're the reason my game mats have squares drawn on them), I believe you'd like them. The rules are a 'physical' book, though I believe I have the PBI Lite PDF around here somewhere. I'll see if I can find it and e-mail it to you.

V/R,
Jack

Sorry, too much crap on my computer, can't find them, but here's the link from the PP website:

PDF link

V/R,
Jack

One thing to remember with PBI is that it is played with bases of troops in areas (squares) so it doesn't really matter how your figure groups are based. Mine are on 30x30 bases as the rules recommend, but some use round bases (coins/washers), and (with a bit of ingenuity) some use FoW bases. As long as you can clearly define what groups there are and what their basic weapon is (e.g. Rifle, LMG or SMG for the infantrymen themselves) and which is the commander (Platoon or Company).

Phil

Are you going to release new PBI in pdf format as well as you recently did with AK-47?

Cheers Jack for looking for it; too many photos on your computer maybe ;)
And thanks for the link I'll check it out when I get back to base camp! I hadn't realized you used them. I had wondered about the squares on your mat but I presumed that was the original pattern on your grandmothers carpet :0

Are the squares on the mat necessary or just helpful. Any old AARs using on your site using them?

Thanks Phil sounds like my FoW 15mm will work fine then

Panda, the squares are not only necessary but are essential to how PBI is played. It's a brilliant game and I'd still be playing it if I could have gotten my group into them. It was mainly just me so eventually I ended up selling all my bases to fellows up north. But I still think the rules are terrific.

Panda,

Sorry, there's a little bit of confusion regarding the squares. On my mat you can see the 2" squares quite visibly; those are not for PBI. But then I took a marker and lined out more, as PBI squares are 8" (if I recall correctly). If you're smarter than I am about it, you don't need to draw the lines, just little tick marks in the corners. I've seen pictures where guys make really good use of terrain to delineate the 8" squares, so you don't need to mark your mat up the way I did.

V/R,
Jack

Yep definitely got my interest now although I cant say I'm a big fan of games that require grids and hexes etc. I suppose some kind of square template wouldnt work if the edges of the board were marked?

Anyway Im sure Ill figure something out…

Thanks for the info guys

Nobody I mentioned the game to was crazy about the idea of the grid until they played, and then they thought it was brilliant. It eliminates rulers entirely and there can be no arguments about whether something is in range or not. I loved the fact that the rules were so logical as well. For example-- It cost more action points to get your men to move out of cover than into it.

Well I'm sold on the idea now :) I actually pretty excited about trying if out.

Does the new addition have any major changes?

I have the 2006 version. Can you detail the areas that are revised and why they were changed?
if you choose not to provide a detailed explanation of all the revisions, perhaps just an outline (for example; 29.6 Assault Results: revised how number of casualties is determined.)

If we already have an earlier version are there so many revisions that we'd need to obtain the new version?

thanks,

Thanks for the interest.

1. the shooting mechanism. Basically every point a base expends allows him to roll a D6. Thus 3 points gives 3D6. MGs however get double dice and quadruple dice if the target is clustered.
Hits are on sixes. This emulates the huge amount of ammo expended to get hits. All modifiers are applied to saves only. There are modifiers to the number of D6 for some weapons but basically it can be memorised easily.

e.g a bren base and two rifle bases shoot using 3action points. The target is not considered until the shooting is done. So, each rifle base contributes 3D6 and the Bren contributes 6D6. A total of 12D6. The dice are rolled and the number of 6 scores noted (as in "look I have 3 sixes!")
The shooter can trade in any hits for a chance to score 5,6 and create a pinned result..

martin

You will definitely need a new set of PBI even if only to make me very rich Bob. The 2000, 2006 and 2014 sets all have the same basic concepts for tank shooting, foot shooting, activation and movement. After that it is all change and better.

WW2 has loads of very good rule sets available. PBI is an evolutionary rule set that is great fir those wanting to take the role of company commander and get the game done in 2 hours. PBI has a ground scale and lost of nods to infantry warfare. It does not make you feel like you have been in combat and allows late war Russians to fight the BEF.

There are about 70 changes from 2006 PBI. Not so bad considering the 8 year time gap. So too many to list I think,

Can you give us a list of armies covered?

It is fairly generic in that most rifles re treated the same . Most SMGs are treated the same etc..
PBI will include Germans, Russians, US, Commonwealth, Chinese etc…
There is point system (anathema to some, but we like 'em)so that unlisted company can still be built. The basic company will begin with two foot platoons and extras as detailed in the company book.
A basic law in PBI is that you will get the opportunity via reinforcements to use your whole company albeit the initial on table chaps will be scenario dictated. So, if you have made and painted it, you will get he chance to use it.

martin

Phil, you did a good job there of summarising and tempting people to PBI with pictures.. Thank you!

martin

Thanks Martin. Sounds exciting , looking forward to its release

Martin had a couple of other questions about the rules and I tried PMing you but to no avail so I emailed on your contact address on your website. Thanks

And BTW Phil is an excellent ambassador for the rules…always very willing to explain the game. Cheers for that.

I made a similar mistake at Historicon some years ago by calling the pre-game "recce (pronounced "wrecky") instead of Recon. Common language and all that.

So no one from either side of the pond would understand me if I pronounced it "rees-ee"? And here I thought I was becoming multi-lingual, wargame-wise.

If you point as well , it would be very clear!

I have always liked the square bashing model – not just for WW2 but for most periods. It seems to me that simulates better what the overall general or leader does in a battle. He sends units to rough locations or positions in a battle line and gives them general orders. All the micromanagement which a lot of rule sets require should be the concern of the sergeant/lieutenant/centurion or whatever.

I like the idea that you can position the figures in the square in a way that looks cool, though careless players tend to just pile them in.

Both of you men have got it spot on. Said betterer than me.
martin

Martin, can you answer my question above about releasing PBI in pdf format?

WarPanda – I use my entire FoW collection of figures for PBI with no changes. Three other guys at the club have played and used their collections with no problem. We have used Brit. Italian, German, Hungarian and Soviet forces.

Unlike FoW which averages firepower out over the bases in a platoon, PBI very definitely goes base by base. If you have modelled up your platoons historically with LMGs scattered around in roughly the right proportions then there will be no problem though as you can easily ID LMG vs rifle groups. If you have not done this then you may have an issue with easy identification.

You will need to have FoW forces that are able to make up proper infantry companies to match up well – rather than an IINO type force and PBI does focus on the infantry. From memory my Hungarian force is about two full rifle companies with some LMGs, a couple of ATGs, a trio of armoured cars or Toldis, a command unit, HMGs and mortars.

Many turn their nose up at the grid concept – and it made me think quite a bit before jumping into buying the game but I got too much good feedback not to try it. Tried it, liked it. For gaming I took one of the club cloths and marked the 6" grid pattern on the reverse of the felt cloth in permanent cloth marker being careful that the minimum went through – the cloth no works for PBI one side (and Mighty Armies or HOTT actually) and still entirely useable for non-grid games on the other.

If you want to see how it works then download the lite version and give it a try.

I find the PBI is a great set of rules. I've also found opponents that initially turned their noses up at the idea of squares, then love the system once they got started. I'm hoping that I can get this version in PDF format as well, Martin, but have it on my calendar to buy when available.

Thanks myrm11 I'm sold on this for sure…I've a lot if FoW based minis just gathering dust and this sounds like an excellent set of rules to get them back into the war. Some of the concepts have got me pretty excited to be honest. And I know some of the posters here who have recommended it and I really trust their recommendations which is always helpful too…(wouldn't trust some of them outside of recommending a set of war-gaming rules though …yes Jack I'm talking about you ;)

Well Davey that originally threw me off too but it sounds fad too interesting not to try it out. I'm sure we can figure a way to mark them out so they're not too obtrusive!

Hello Blacksmith. We are pretty new to pdf publishing but it would seen a good idea to pdf it too. So I will say yes with the proviso that there might be some problem we have not considered….Vague I know!

There are a variety of ways to show the grid.
I expect you will come up with new ones.
Here they are so far.
1.Draw full lines and a full grid.
2.Use thread across the table that creates grid.
3.Do spots on a cloth
4. Glue tile spacers to a made table
5.Only mark 1 foot intervals because players can easily quarter the square feet by eye

martin

Martin, I'm a print designer of 25 years so if you need help generating PDF files from your page layout program, I'd be willing to help. I just finished redesigning the rulebook for Dunkirk A Spoiled Victory (White Dog) gratis because I liked the game so much, so exporting a PDF for PBI I can do if you need the help.

WarPanda … PBI has some interesting command and control stuff in it, plays quickly, and introduces some neat mechanics like the patrol stuff at the start of the scenario which means not everyone will be available for the fight right from the get-go. Every time I've played I've found the flow and results "realistic" enough that I've been very pleased.

I have only a small force of painted Brits, Yanks and Germans in 10mm and almost no 3D terrain due to a focus now on board wargames … but I created custom 4" terrain tiles double sided on illustrator board (instead of 6" due to table size) that have various terrain types drawn on them that allow me to make up my map board quickly. I really enjoy the system and place it second only to CrossFire for playable, correct and fun.

Hello Davey JJ
Would you mind e mailing me at martin@peterpig.demon.co.uk to see if I can borrow some of yore thinking on pdfs?

thanks

martin

Thanks Davey…crossfire is a fav of mine too…

Our clubs 'like crossfire' and 'like PBI' crossover is 5 out of 6 players so far.

I love PBI and Martin is a fantastic owner of a great company. I have lots of PPL rules and PBI is a great game. I look forward to buying the new set, pdf or not.

Anyways, My ww2 collection started in 10mm to be used for PBI FOW IABSM and Rapid Fire. I based with 3-4 figs per stand with 2 lmg figs. For FOW I combined the lmg base and one other base and kept them together. That way I was able to play each system without rebasing.

As for the grid, I don't like the grid lines, so I glued a piece of lichen at each grid corner. For those that worry about the look of the grid aesthetically tyen this might be the way for you to go.

Love PBI, when is the release date? I see October, nice.

I played PBI once at a Historicon several years ago (a Burma scenario, run by Brian Cantwell, I think), and the game was incredibly entertaining. The American defense of a creekbed felt like the real thing---both sides identified the critical terrain feature, massed their forces around it, and fought to exhaustion. Great stuff.

I would buy a PDF without hesitation.

Worth mentioning Martin's excellent Spanish Civil War version or PBI, 'Bayonets and Ideology' -will that get a look over?