"Everything Osprey now on Scribd?" Topic

I'm not sure if this would be helpful, or if everyone already knows, but here goes.

I just started a monthly subscription to Scribd.com, for $ 8.99 US per month. This gives me download access to millions of books that surprisingly relate to wargaming, such as the British War Office's Handbook on the Russian Army, 1914. As I have now decided to expand the AOV expansion module (for Age of Eagles) to include the "Guns of August" period, this is a fantastic find. Now its mine to keep.

The cost also gives online access to about 400,000 what they call Subscription Books from 900 publishers.

To include Osprey.

As in everything they have, all of it, Elite, Men at Arms, Hell even John Hills new ACW rules Across Deadly Fields is included.

Right now I'm reading Nigel Thomas' Armies in the Balkans 1914 – 1918 as part of my AOV research, and I've put another 36 in my online library. If I see something I want to keep permanently, I do a screen capture and convert it to PDF.

There are also a bunch of mainstream pubs to boot, such as Cornelius Ryan's Longest Day, and a lot of recent books as well. From what I can see, their "Subscription" holdings have jumped from about 100,000 to 400,000 in a month. The downloadable side has about 40 million documents, mostly uploads from subscribers.

Here is the link to the book referenced above, but I don't know if it will show –

link

There might be a downside to this, so please speak up. But right now I am really enjoying myself for nine bucks a month.

Ciao, Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

The book doesn't show, well not on my ipad anyway. I guess that once you stop subscribing you can no longer see your downloads?

There might be a downside to this, so please speak up.

If I understand Scribd correctly, it is all user-uploaded publications (for online storage, sharing books/dissertations/documents, etc). I do not know how many of the Osprey books on Scribd have been uploaded directly by Osprey Publishing (perhaps just a few), or if they gave permission to upload any beyond their own uploads.

That is in no way legal and a complete breach of copyright law. Glad you are enjoying it , but if everyone did this Osprey would be out of business within weeks.

Rebel Yell,

This is incorrect. There are 4 million documents uploaded by subscribers. These are downloadable and yours to keep.

The Subscription Books are a separate pool and come direct from the publisher. SO FAR AS I CAN TELL, EVERYTHING OSPREY PUBLISHES HAS BEEN PROVIDED, DIRECT FROM OSPREY.

This is a new service, started back in November 2013. I tried a free month in June, but decided not to subscribe. Now that everything Osprey is included, I jumped.

deephorse,

Yup, you unsubscribe you lose access to the Subscription Books, which seem to include all the Ospreys. That's why if there is a chart or color plate I want, I do a screen capture. Not sure why you can't see the book, so I will try to pull a screen capture.

Ciao, Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

Tin Soldier Man,

Incorrect. Scribd has a business contract with Osprey to provide the content. Its perfectly legal.

Ciao, Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

Colonel Bill

Where is the proof of your statement? Everything I've heard about Scribd is that it steals its content.

Can you subscribe outside US? I can not buy kindle books from Amazon.com, so not sure if I can use this. Shame as looks interesting.

Dan 055,

Read this article:

link

Gunnerphil, from Scribd FAQ:

What countries can I use Scribd in?

The Scribd subscription service is available world-wide! Going on a vacation somewhere fun? Bring us along! You can take Scribd with you when you travel by installing our app on one of your mobile devices and saving books for offline reading. No internet connection is no reason to be without book options.

Due to our agreements with authors and publishers, we do have to say that not all books are available to read in all countries. We understand that this can be frustrating and are working hard to make every book available to every reader. Rest assured: Most of our library is available world-wide, and if one title isn't, there are plenty of others to choose from.

Ciao, Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

Hmmm

From the various posts above it appears that if I get a Scribd sub for a month, I can download Ospreys en masse, disable the internet on the device that they are all on and cancel my sub.

Without a a connection, they can't delete them

Or am I missing something ?

Guthy,

You can't download the Ospreys or any "Subscription Book", unless you do a page by page screen capture, SFAIK.

You have to read them online.

That's the catch as to how they make their money and pay publishers.

Ciao, Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

I think it is a pretty good idea. So, can you subscribe for a month and then stop or is it a commitment of say 6 months or a year?

Thank you Colonel Bill. Just restarted my months free trial. All the Ospreys I've checked so far are viewable from the UK. I have also been able to download one for offline reading on my tablet using the Scribd app, you can have up 20 books stored for offline reading apparently. Also pleased to say all the other subscription books I've looked at are available to me here in the UK, the reason I ended my free trial the same day I started it last year was because nearly everything of interest was unavailable because of my location. This time I might even think about paying when the freebie ends, even if I don't, the chance to have a good look through Across A Deadly Field, and the other Osprey rules I don't already own is very welcome.

So essentially netflix for books. There IS a lot of piracy on there too, but that's hardly the only use for the service.

I checked on the copyright infringement issue, and the bottom line is that its about the same as what happens on YouTube and really no worse. Some folks upload copyrighted material, and when found and reported, Scribd takes them down.

Evidently you can end the subscription at any time after the first month.

I also checked out Amazon's new service, but its a dollar more and the only Ospreys listed are those new text only Guides (the Essential histories with NO charts or pictures)they are pushing.

As noted before, I tried Scribd a month or so ago and said "eh?" With Osprey on board, it was a different story.

My bigger concern is that someone will find a way to abuse the system such that Osprey and other publishers back out of the agreement.

Ciao, Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

It could be part of a two-pronged attack. One is legitimate Osprey publishing on Scribd. The second is perhaps a greater effort by Scribd to remove non-legitimate Osprey materials. After all, a Google search for "Osprey" + "Scribd" yields thousands of pirated materials, and Scribd needs to change that reputation.

Colonel Bill

Thank you that link was helpful.

However I respond with this one -

link

Where is the proof of your statement? Everything I've heard about Scribd is that it steals its content.

Got any proof of this? I'm always curios when one person holds their hearsay above someone elses without doing any research of their own.

Scribd does not steal, any more than Youtube steals. If users scan and upload books without permission, or repost .pdf files from other people (or if a user records and uploads a video or reposts a video someone else makes), that is the fault of the users if Scribd (or Youtube) makes a reasonable effort to remove copyrighted materials when requested.

Dan,

Quite honestly, I think the article is irrelevant in this particular case. From out-law.com, "US law allows facilitators of Internet publishing to escape liability for copyright infringement if they had no role in creating the content, do not moderate it and if they take infringing material down as soon as they are notified about it."

When they are notified, they take it down, and from what I can find, there has yet to be successful litigation against the firm which admittedly finds itself in very famous company – YouTube. Organizations including Viacom, Mediaset, and the English Premier League have filed lawsuits against YouTube, claiming that it has done too little to prevent the uploading of copyrighted material. Hell, Viacom sued them for a billion claiming 150K illegal movie clips. Lord, I can't imagine how much stuff on Facebook is in this same category.

And as your article points out, Scribd seems to be addressing the issue. And so long as they remove the material when notified, the DCMA is met and they are fine.

BUT IN THIS CASE IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER!!! The Subscription Service is fully separate from user uploaded content, with the full backing of 900 publishers to include Osprey. If Osprey is comfortable with this arrangement, it works for me as well.

And obviously, you don't have to subscribe if you don't want to, so I can't see the issue here.

Ciao, Bill Gray
ageofeagles.com

Its the new model for "book subscriptions." The book part is legal and publishers enter into a deal for them to do so. There are a few companies doing this Oyster, etc.

Scribd does have a staggering amount of pirated material in their user uploaded documents section. I've had to play whack a mole there a lot. I will refrain from calling those people what they are.

But Scribd is partially at fault for the piracy as they turn a blind eye to people who have scores of obvious pirated books, and will only take down the specific one that was complained about. Mind you, In my case this was always done within 24 hours.

I'm not sure (as a writer) I am thrilled at the book subscription model. It may turn out to be OK for independents, but be pretty lame for those going through a 'real' publisher.

One you read more than 20% of a book, the publisher gets a payment. I will admit it has made me look at books I otherwise would not have spent money on.

think of it as a private library- as long as you are a member you an take out and read the books. Stop paying and you can't.

If you are a Scribd subscriber, go check out 'Chronicles of Old Guy' and look at more than 20%…. please!

I suspect it will end up being like Spotify, where the artists get screwed, and the money is made by the publishers who actually own stock in the company and cut sweetheart deals with themselves.

From what I understand, the issue with Spotify is that the money goes to the labels, not the artists.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case here as well.

On the larger piracy topic: Piracy is **** BUT, we cannot ever get to a position where the medium of exchange is found guilty because it can be used for piracy.

The internet as you know it would no longer exist.

We have a case in New Zealand with Mega Upload which has been dragging on for a couple of years. The US film companies are holding Kim dot Com hostage over issues which you are describing above, about storing unauthorised copyrighted material.

Would be interested to see where this ends as once they get a conviction on Kim does it mean everyone else is also going to be persecuted, oops slip of the tongue. I mean prosecuted?

This particular offering from Scribd may be legal, but it feels like eating at the kind of pizza place where there are 4 serious looking gentlemen sitting in a corner and the pizza is served in a box from another restaurant. If you can ignore the human trafficking going on in the kitchen, then by all means enjoy.

Rich

think of it as a private library- as long as you are a member you an take out and read the books. Stop paying and you can't.

On the other hand, public libraries can and do carry some Osprey books. And some private libraries (like research libraries and private university libraries) will not charge fees to access books, which again may carry Osprey books. The Atlanta History Center's reading room and archives, for example, has some ACW titles on their publicly-accessible shelves. No fee is required there (just registration showing a photo ID). Fees are assessed for copying pages, but pages can be copied for free by photographing them with a camera phone (with flash turned off). What Scribd offers is that, but with a fee charged for greater convenience of access.

but pages can be copied for free by photographing them with a camera phone (with flash turned off).

Which is definitely illegal.

The ability to borrow a book, whether hard copy from a library, or e-version via Scribd does not give you permission to copy it.

I concede it can't be policed, but that doesn't make it legal.

It depends on whether or not the copy would fall under fair use. Copying an entire book is not the same as copying a single page. And copying a page to aid in a miniature sculpting business is not the same as copying a page to aid a hobbyist in paint his/her personal miniatures. Or, as is usually the case for research libraries, it is hobby genealogists and college students/professors.

Colonel Bill

Back to the gaming.

Great news you are extending AoV to early WW1.

Made my day.

Just read "Mad Catastrophe" and AoV looks good for Eastern as well as Western WW1.

I was wondering about converting the RJW play sheets but as you are thinking of this it will be done much better!

As far as I'm concerned this sounds like blatant copyright infringement.

When I was managing editor at ARMY Magazine, I found that all of our content was showing up on Scribd: there was no permission, no agreement, no contact, no nothing.

Granted, that was last in 2007. They may have since changed their model. I don't know (but I doubt it).

I just subscribed, very cool. You can not print anything so that's good. You can only print documents others upload, that is shady. I will read as I need to and still plan on getting copies of John Hills latest Across a Deadly Field. Nice to have access to all the Bolt Action books, I have bought 3 army books and the rules. Nice to be able to read and use what you want to, I will buy hard copies if I feel I want them. Scribd to me is like trial versions of the rules and you also get access to lots of great books to read. Better then the library, no late fees.

Putting content online is publishing it, whether you can download it or not. What you do is up to you on scribd, but make an informed decision is all I'm saying. There is no distinction between downloadable and non-downloadable content. It all requires permissions.

Let me put it this way. If you published a magazine, and then saw that it was being published online (read only) on scribd, almost parallel to your printing it, without your knowledge or permission, what would your impression be? I'm not speculating--that was what I experienced when I was working at a magazine.

I have no idea how they're getting away with what they're doing, but I won't have anything to do with them.

Best,
Ed M

Ever hear if Netflix? Scribd is the same thing, just for books.

Bede19025,

Netflix? Never heard of them, at least not in a form that could be compared to Scribd.

The last few comments fascinate me (and FWIW validate my Adamite personality). I don't whether people aren't reading the entire thread, simply unfamiliar with copyright law or just don't understand it, but here is reality:

1. What Scribd is doing with the Osprey collection IS LEGAL. Not an opinion, an absolute, legally validated fact. Scribd has a binding legal contract with Osprey to publish those books online using a subscription model. Every time the book is accessed, Osprey gets a payment from Scribd. I researched why Osprey might be doing this, and from what I have been able to uncover is that Osprey figures there are a lot of books people simply won't purchase because they are only of cursory interest. On the other hand a subscription service might tempt some people to check out these very titles, thus putting a little coin into Osprey's pocket where none was before. Don't use the subscription service on Scribd, Osprey gets zip.

2. The non-subscription part of Scribd consists of uploads from the consumers worldwide, and yes, copyrighted material is often found. Under the DCMA – US law – Scribd is required to remove the material when notified, and Scribd does this religiously. Scribid complies with the law, and then some. See scribd.com/copyright/bookid and also see link .

I suppose Scribd could do more, but my guess is that the additional staffing and material resources needed would likely price them out of business (there is also the not so infrequent case where a creator may desire the infringement as a way increase public awareness – case in point, the production music company Two Steps from Hell on YouTube)

3. Now full disclosure – there are those who feel that regardless of the measures above, Scribd and similar sites still facilitate copyright infringement, something a proposed law called SOPA is supposed to address. According to the Registrar of Copyright in the US, such legislation would specifically target Scribd . . .

And Facebook,

And YouTube,

And Dropbox,

And Google Docs.

These sites were specifically singled out, so bottom line is that if you use these or sites like them, its the same as using Scribd according to the nations top copyright officer.

So most certainly avoid the new Scribd subscription service if it makes you uncomfortable, but know the facts and very much be careful what you ask for. You just might get it.

Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

With respect,

I don't personally see Scribd as the same as social media sites, which, I agree, have similar problems, superficially, speaking.

It is my take that any reputable concern that specializes in online content would not have a two-tiered system, one via subscription with licensed items (no problem), and another that provides a platform for anyone to post material until told to cease and desist. It's a no-brainer that the latter would be tantamount to facilitating copyright infringement. Why even have the non-subscription content?

I believe my perspective to be an informed one, but there are other informed perspectives as well--and nobody is going to change their mind based on what they read here, to include me. So to persist beyond this point is to simply aggravate the situation to no good end. So, I've offered my two cents, and now will change the subject.

Perhaps one thing we might all agree on is a website that seems to get it right, by just about any measure: the Internet Archive. Through it I'm reading "The Operations of General Gurko's Advance Guard in 1877" (part of the Wolsesly Series).

Check it out. It's quite a resource (for many things):

archive.org/index.php

For the record, Google Docs is not a social media site, and the Registrar of Copyright sees no difference.

In answer to your overall question, the reason is that its human nature to want to share resources and experiences, which is why the Facebooks and Flickrs (another site on the SOPA hit list) of the world are so popular. So when I searched Scribd for "Russo-Japanese War" the first thing that popped up was the 1907 official history of the war by Britain's Committee on Imperial Defense. The book is now in the Public Domain, so uploading a copy does not constitute infringement of any sort. I don't know the specific reason why the individual uploaded it, but I am certainly glad he did as I don't have to pay the mega bucks for a modern reprint. And I've often found uploaded similar material that you can't even find in other online depositories like archive.org – such as the maps from back pockets of the Austrian official history of WWI (or similar) which colleges and Google still refuse to scan.

I've not seen any data, but at least when I search for the stuff I use (as that above), the overwhelming majority has been copyright legit. I'm a published author and to have access to such material even for casual purposes, I'll gladly play the DCMA take down process for my own works and not bat an eyelash.

Bottom line for me is that, yes, there are some abusers, but this downside is minuscule compared to the benefits of having such hard to find literature.

Colonel Bill
ageofeagles.com

PS – Yes I do indeed use archive.org, a LOT, as I do Gallica, die digitale Landesbibliotek Oberosterreich, and a bunch more but note my comment above. The absence of maps has always given me fits.

PPS – Sorry, I was responding to your earlier, shorter response, so I think when you changed it mine and yours crossed in the ether.

If the service or medium can be condemned as illegal because it can be used to facilitate piracy then goodbye to:

Ipods with hard drives over a few GBs (piracy enablers and can store pirated information)

Computers with hard drives in the terabytes (outside of special cases, this is mainly for piracy)

USB sticks (transfer pirated files)

Blank CD's (piracy medium)

Email (can transmit pirated information)

Web browsers (access pirated information)

Pen and paper (copyrighted material can be written down)

Photo copiers (book piracy)

Scanners (book piracy)

The postal service (pirated material can be sent through the mail)

Humanity (they are the pirates after all)

Electricity (facilitates piracy on a global scale).

Individual pirates should be subject to the law but we can't hold the existence of a technology at gun point because it can be used for something bad.

Well said to the last two posts. No one here is supporting piracy. I read Across a Deadly Field John Hill and Osprey get paid. Every form of media will have its own share of miscreants, I am not one of them, at least I think so.