"The Legacy of USS Indianapolis" Topic

"The July 30, 1945 sinking of the heavy cruiser USS Indianapolis (CA-35) by the Imperial Japanese submarine 1-58 has been called the last, great naval tragedy of World War II. It is the stuff of legend: after delivering the atomic bombs to Tinian, the Indy was torpedoed, sinking in 12 minutes. At least 800 crew members survived the sinking and went into the water. On their rescue after five days, only 320 still were alive. Their stories have inspired three books, a movie, and perhaps yet another feature film.
The Indy's survivors fought sharks, deprivation, and the elements, and now they fight to get their captain exonerated. Their commanding officer, Captain Charles B. McVay III (above), is the only captain ever to be court-martialed for having his ship sunk out from under him during time of war.

The group of men that stood before me that warm Hawaiian afternoon could have passed for those in any retirement community. As I looked at them, I searched for something in their faces that might reveal the incredible suffering they had endured, something that might identify them as the heroes they were. There did seem to be an intensity of spirit—a fire in their eyes—that belied their advancing years, but other than that, as hard as I looked, I saw no hint of the true horror that they must have hidden within them. And nothing that would provide a clue to the casual observer of just how incredible these men really were…"

link

Full article here
link

Amicalement
Armand

My supervisor's dad was a marine before and during WW II on two ships. He was on the Arizona at Pearl Harbor, but was on shore leave at the time of the attack. Afterwards he was transferred to the Indianapolis, but was transferred off three days before the torpedo hit.

Interesting article.

Glad you enjoyed it my friend. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

I never knew the captain was court-martialed. An unbelievable "reward" for a hero.

Here's the official report on the Court Martial of Capt McVay:

"Captain Charles B. McVay, III, U.S. Navy, was tried on December 3-19, 1945, by a Naval Court Martial composed of seven members. His trial followed the sinking of the USS Indianapolis by a Japanese submarine and was based upon two charges: First, Inefficiency in failing to issue and insure the execution of orders for the abandonment of the USS Indianapolis: Second, Negligence in "Suffering a Vessel of the Navy to be Hazarded" by neglecting and failing to cause a zigzag course to be steered when visibility conditions and information concerning enemy submarines required him under current United States Fleet Tactical Orders to zigzag in order to minimize the danger from submarine attack. Captain McVay was acquitted of the first charge and therefore was cleared of responsibility for the loss of lives incident to the abandonment of the ship. He was convicted of the second charge. He was neither charged with, nor tried for, losing the Indianapolis. The sentence imposed by the court decreed the loss of one hundred numbers in his temporary grade of Captain and one hundred numbers in his permanent grade of Commander. In view of his outstanding previous record, the court unanimously recommended clemency.

The proceedings, findings and sentence were found legal by the Judge Advocate General and were approved by the Chief of Naval Personnel. This approval, however, was accompanied by the recommendation that in view of Captain McVay's excellent record and the unanimous recommendation for clemency by the court, the sentence should be remitted and he should be restored to duty. Fleet Admiral King, Commander in Chief and Chief of Naval Operations at the time of the disaster in July 1945, concurred in the recommendation by the Chief of Naval Personnel. Secretary of the Navy James Forrestal has approved these recommendations and has remitted the sentence of Captain McVay in its entirety, releasing him from arrest and restoring him to duty."

Since he was not zig-zagging at the time of the attack, the conviction is pretty clear cut. So you may want to check your facts before posting.

Not mentioned in the article was CAPT McVay's suicide in the early 1960s. By some accounts (I have no idea if they are true), he'd received "hate" mail/phone calls for years after the war. It was after one such supposed communication that he shot himself.

On a different note, the sinking of the USS INDIANOPOLIS (CA 35) supposedly prompted the US Navy to institute the Movement Reporting (MOVREP) messaging system. Under that system, US Navy ships are required to submit thier Plan of Intended Movement (PIM) prior to sailing and update it as necessary, and are required to remain within 4 hours of the projected position at all times. Having been a Navigator on an LHA, I can vouch that busting PIM is a Bad Thing.

Since you all are talking about USS Indianapolis (CA-35), I thought it might be interesting to mention that one of the survivors is friend of the family. My wife and I started attending the surivor's re-unions last year. We were just there in Indianapolis the weekend of July 26th. They are always interesting and emotionally moving events.

They talk about Captain McVay a lot and how much the crew admired him. The survivors still admire him and they are not happy with how he was treated after the Indy was sunk.

I would upload some photos, but I haven't figured out how to do it yet.

The burden a captain carries is enormous. He can be punished for things that are entirely not his fault. For example, if the man on the helm spun the wheel over hard in a narrow channel because his eggs were runny that morning and the ship ran aground, the captain would probably never get another ship again. This is the price they pay for command, and if you asked them whether they're willing to accept that risk, actually they already said yes when they took command. The truth is the Navy has more captains than ships and they can afford to throw away a few good ones if it causes fewer ships to sink. Sounds harsh and unfair, but it has a cruel logic to it.

Off topic, but reminds of an incident with Enterprise CVN65. Back in 1983, she was coming back to Alameda after an eight month deployment. A half mile from the pier, she touched bottom on one of San Francisco Bay's ever shifting, ever notorious sand bars. Held her up for 5 hours (waiting for high tide). Even though she was under the helm of the bay pilot and the sand bar was a complete unknown, the first words out of the captain's mouth was 'this is on me'. So, yes, a captain is ALWAYS responsible for EVERYTHING and ANYTHING that happens on or to his ship.

Murvihill and coastal2, everything you say is true, but the salient difference is that Captain McVay lost his ship in combat, not the result of an accident. That is what made his courtmartial unique and controversial. There were a large number of factors that when compounded together created the whole Indianapolis tragedy. Included in all this is why the Indy was not provided an escort and also why captain McVay was not given access to the current intelligence on the waters he was going to be sailing through. It was one of those situations in which the compartmentation of intelligence worked against us. I think Doug Stanton's book "In Harm's Way" does a really good job of bringing it all out and explaining it. It's a complex story that is difficult to summarize. Speaking of Doug Stanton, he was at the reunion this year.

"The truth is the Navy has more captains than ships and they can afford to throw away a few good ones if it causes fewer ships to sink."

How does throwing away GOOD captains ensure fewer ships will sink? I'm reminded Nimitz ran his destroyer aground. Just good fortune he wasn't thrown away. I'm also reminded of one of the few things I agree with Churchill on. Something about the navy and tradition.

I have read "In Harm's Way" and I don't buy Stanton's arguments. The simple fact is McVay was not zig-zagging in an area known for submarine activity. Period. Full stop. The court found him guilty on that count and immediately recommended the conviction be remitted, which it was. As for the continuing hand wringing; it's noteworthy that the first Congressional action to expunge McVay's record wasn't even aware that the conviction was overturned. So much for the scholarly rigor of the 'McVay was wronged! faction…

"How does throwing away GOOD captains ensure fewer ships will sink? "

You have two astronauts. Their records are both exemplary, even perfect, except one of them crashed the shuttle once, though the evidence suggests it's not his fault. You only have space on the next mission for one of them. Which one would you pick? If you assume that there are more candidates for a position than there are positions the process makes sense.